You are right, and my marriage is certainly way more precious to me than any disagreement. I definitely feel that compelling need to integrate what I learn scientifically (although I never liked science in school and am much more “big picture”-science oriented than, say, into doing chemistry equations, to which my C- in the subject in high school attested) with what I believe theologically. I feel like the way God chose to create must reveal some essential things about Him; just as I believe His choice to reveal Himself in Jesus Christ is deeply meaningful! It is, at times, hard for me to rest in mystery. I guess it goes back to that whole wanting to be God thing 
Thanks so much, Casper. It was really helpful to read this! My husband does not come from a religiously conservative background (he was raised nominally Mormon), but his family is quite politically and socially conservative and I feel most of them would default to being offended at the idea of “intermediate steps”, as you say, though I guess I shouldn’t automatically assume that. Whenever I try to get to the bottom of the offense with him, he gets angry. Perhaps it is because he feels disrespected or condescended to, though that is not my intent! It’s good advice to tread lightly on the controversy 
Christy, thanks so much for this. I had to think for a moment about your questions. At first, I thought, sure, I’m fine with disagreeing. But when I think more deeply about it, I guess there is indeed more at stake for me (and I can understand why my husband, or any other Christian who refuses the premises of evolution, feels there is more at stake as well). If, as my husband mentioned just yesterday, I finally “see face to face” and it turns out evolution is not true (not sure how this would play out, but I’m just gonna go with it). I said I would have to express my regret for being wrong, I guess. But now that I think of it, it would be much deeper than that… it would perhaps mean that, as I’ve heard YEC’ers suggest, false evidence was purposefully planted in nature in order to “test our faith”. I find that idea totally absurd and inconsistent with who I feel God to be based on Scripture and my own experience of His presence. I would be disappointed, if one can be disappointed in heaven, which I don’t think is possible, but like I said, I’m just gonna go with this hypothetical I can understand too, however, why some Christians who hold to the inerrancy of Scripture as a 100% literal narrative find the evolution issue to have much at stake for them, as well. I myself have struggled with the idea of inerrancy.
As for the homeschool science curricula, we didn’t get that far in our conversation because it just got too heated. But he has thus far left the selection of curricula up to me and trusted me in that regard.
Lol! No hate mail from me I actually lean toward your perspective that honoring my husband is tantamount, but I struggle with the idea of not teaching my kids the perspective of theistic evolution at all (though my husband has not explicitly stated at this point that this is his wish), and fear if we homeschool all the way through high school this could severely limit their options for higher education - at this point, my seven-year-old son insists that he wants to be a scientist, specifically a biologist.
I did not have a good model of what respect in a marriage looks like growing up and I have struggled mightily with learning to give my husband the respect he deserves and needs and learning to defer to him. I read some books (including Scripture, of course) that revealed to me just how important respect is to men and that has really opened my eyes, plus I definitely feel God has convicted me on it! Our entire argument began last night because I was laughing about the fact that the “Ice Age” exhibition we had attended at the children’s museum in a nearby city earlier in the day featured signs that warned it contained references to “extended geologic time”. I probably was being snarky about that, and I shouldn’t have been. It became heated very quickly. When I asked what was underlying the feeling of offense (in an earnest, honestly curious way, I felt; but it must have not sounded that way to him), he shut the conversation down.
I am definitely guilty of having been too challenging and aggressive about it in the past. As I mentioned in my comment to Christy, when I really think about it, though the subject is just an interest for me and I enjoy reading books on it and articles here on Biologos, there is indeed more at stake for me theologically. I prayed this morning for clarity, wisdom and insight for both of us and humility for me. We have had other, more minor theological agreements and I have learned to either defer to him or present my view as gently as possible in most cases. I’m still not perfect, for sure. But learning with God’s grace
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I was thinking some more about this and I think marriage just makes any “debate” infinitely more complicated. At the heart of almost every controversial topic I have duked out with my husband, the heat factor has never been about the facts and arguments, or who is ultimately right or wrong. It always seems to turn into one of us feeling like the other person is being patronizing, or judgmental, or flippant about something that is serious, or a terrible listener, and we end up fighting about how we failed to communicate and who should take responsibility for it. And a lot of times what seemed like fairly neutral ideas about politics or theology were tied in somehow with our self-image or identity or more intimate faith struggles, but it wasn’t like we could totally unpack all that in an argument about something tangential.
I like arguing about stuff; I think it is entertaining and stimulating, and with other people I don’t have much problem keeping it about ideas and not taking things personally. I’m not a very emotional person, but I have learned that I am totally incapable of having purely rational disagreements with my husband, even on topics that I don’t really care that much about. Somehow all of my deepest insecurities and unhealthy defense mechanisms come up when my husband says, “I think you’re wrong,” and forty-five minutes later, I end up crying, and he ends up throwing up his hands and telling me I’m impossible. And even though my husband isn’t all that emotional either, me telling him I think he is wrong certainly triggers emotional stuff for him too. We all want to be loved and accepted and considered wonderful exactly the way we are by our partners, so I think it is always hard to hear that your partner wishes you thought differently on something. Deep down it always feels a little like rejection.
At one point five years ago we were both students and could get free marriage counseling for a year. It was really great, and the counselor encouraged us to intentionally communicate some things more often when we don’t see things the same way: “I like you and accept you the way you are. I am not trying to change you. I just want to understand you better.” Just hearing those things affirmed in the middle of a discussion where we don’t see eye to eye on the ideas we are discussing has been a huge help to us in having less volatile discussions, and feeling like it is okay to walk away from a conversation even if we haven’t managed to get on the same page about everything.
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Ashley, I have found the following helpful in at least one couple’s situation. I referred them to Dr. Todd Wood’s blog and various articles, mainly for his comments on how he can be a Young Earth Creationist while emphasizing graciousness towards those who disagree and while demanding honesty when describing what the Theory of Evolution states (and with what scientists have to say about the evidence.) At least with the couple I was advising, they both agreed that Dr. Wood’s approach to origin’s topics was one which they both could respect and find informative. They both seemed very relieved that a congenial approach was possible.
Dr. Wood avoids the false dichotomies and the reliance on angry mantras which one often experiences in origins debates. And when a marriage and children are part of the disagreement, Dr. Wood’s approach seems to encourage a cooperative approach instead of a strict reliance on drawing up “sides” for a war.
I’ve often wished that Dr. Wood’s objectives would be appropriated by more Christians who debate origins topics. I don’t agree with many of Dr. Wood’s origins positions but I have tremendous respect for his pleas that all Christ-followers do their best to be Christ-like even while disagreeing.
He’s an example of Dr. Wood’s views on how we should approach origins topics:
"Let me leave you with another chilling possibility. What if we teach the next generation that there is no evidence for evolution? And what if we’re wrong? What do you think will happen when those kids find out? I think what will happen is the same thing that always happens. They’ll be disillusioned and fall away from the faith. I’ve heard of this happening, and I’ve seen it happen. People find out that all the antievolution arguments in the world won’t survive a semester of basic biology at a secular university. While we thought we were teaching them to believe in Christ, we instead taught them to idolize our arguments about Christ. And when those arguments are shown to be incomplete, inadequate, or just wrong, that idolatry (which we thought was real faith) slips away.
That’s why I want my students to know the truth about evolution. It’s not bogus. It’s not a failure. There’s lots of evidence in its favor. But that just doesn’t make it true. Have faith in the risen Christ, and it will not matter what scientists tell you (or anyone else, for that matter)."
I like the way he points us to keeping priorities in perspective.
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Brad, I think your stance here is not correct. To require agreement with the BioLogos belief statement as a requisite for a response is not very wise. Are you saying that a homeschool Mom should remain confused as to whether her children should be helped/motivated to study science one day?
Respectfully, Brad, evolution theory and Christianity are not even remotely in conflict with each other. They are clearly two completely different topics altogether - metaphysics/theology and physical science. The one talks to your mind and your heart, the other to your mind only (‘how the physical world works’ is the subject of investigation in physics/biology, while faith in the Triune God is all about the soul - something that can never be dissected, weighed, measured or analysed in a laboratory).
To restrict a conversation between (clearly loving and mutually respecting) husband and wife by insisting on them having only one option: agree, or get out of the kitchen! is not the way to go.
When my own children were in junior primary school (long before the Dawkins Gang turned science into a battle zone against religion), my advice to them was simply: "What is written in your textbooks, i.e. what your teacher is obligated to teach you, is what you will HAVE to explain in examinations later, otherwise you will not be allowed to advance to higher grades or college/university later on.
It is imperative that parents should tell their kids that only once they become as ‘knowledgeable as their teacher/professor’, will they be able to form their own opinions regarding the origin of life and how speciation works.
It is perfectly OK if a husband and wife disagree on such matters, but kids MUST provide the answers (in tests) that CONFIRMS THEIR UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT THEY WERE TAUGHT, otherwise they will be failed. That would not mean that their faith in our Triune God somehow falters in the process - that’s nonsense. Parents have an obligation (infinitely more important than knowledge about science) to teach their children from a very young age: The contents of the Bible; who and what it is that Christians believe; why we believe so … etcetera.
Dealing with scientific facts is so far removed from faith in God! - Insisting that kids simply have to “choose one scientific approach or another” is greatly detrimental to their development. In this particular thread, a wife who seems to agree with Darwinian evolution, but her husband is not totally convinced, seems to be steering off on a track of unnecessary and easily avoidable conflict - that is clearly bothering her. But it should not! Her husband has a right to see certain things differently, even when she does not agree with him. Arguing about it (especially in the presence of their children) serves no positive purpose at all. I don’t get the impression that either of them is a qualified scientist, but perhaps I am wrong. She should simply see to it that their children advance at school by teaching them the stuff that they will be tested on.
This part of the Forum is restricted because we don’t want people to come here and feel like they have to answer the same sort of attacks and criticisms that they already deal with. This Forum is supposed to be a place where they dont have to deal with that sort of stuff, and instead can focus on offering information and encouragement to each other. We have the “Open Forum” area for discussions between all perspectives on origins.
Nope, I don’t understand how you are getting that out of this discussion.
I agree. Where did I say something different?
I like most of what you say in the rest of your post. Thanks for contributing your thoughts here!
This is something I tell people when I tell them I believe in theistice evolution. The idea of evolution doesn’t put Christianity in danger of being invalid or changes you eternal destination. All it show is that you have a different opinion of Genesis and the Origin of life. I’m going to quote Martin Luther " in the essentials unity, in the nonessential liberty, and in all things love." I would talk you your husband and maybe try to compromise. Don’t force either viewpoint upon them and gently introduce both points of views. Let them decided. Hopefully this helps if not sorry.
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Hi @r_speir,
A big hello to you too, and welcome back to our Forum. All is well and I hope the same goes for you. I am very glad to hear that my blog series Light Matters has been helpful for you in sorting out the topic of science and faith. (For anyone else who’s interested, here’s a direct link.)
If you’ve got any more questions about the biological side of the story, BioLogos has lots of material that goes into that:
Alternatively, feel free to start your own topic on the Forum if you have questions or so 
. I wish you all the best as you’re exploring these topics, it’s a wonderful journey!
Casper
You may want to check the book: Can You believe in God and Evolution? by Peters and Hewlett. They make a nice case for issues like you are facing.
Hi everyone! I’m sorry I have been absent from the latter part of this discussion. I’ve read and appreciated every response but got busy with homeschooling and life in general! I wanted to share an interesting development that happened since I originally posted.
We recently (last summer) moved to a small Kansas town and met a wonderful homeschooling Christian couple around our age with several children. They identify most closely with the Pentecostal tradition. We hit it off and began doing ‘home church’ with them every week. A couple months ago, the issue of Genesis and creation was brought up. Our friends are very staunchly YEC and interpret Genesis literally and things got a little tense during our discussion. My husband, though skeptical of evolution, is pretty firm on an old earth and does not interpret Genesis literally. Our friends had trouble reconciling our affirmation that we take the Bible as the holy and inspired word of God (I prefer not to use the word “inerrant” because it generally seems to corresponds to YEC views) and yet do not believe that the creation account is meant to be taken as a scientific account of creation.
Anyway, in the end, I think the experience was fruitful for all of us. Our friends admitted they had never met committed Christians who were willing to even entertain the idea of evolution being compatible with faith, and we, who accepted Jesus Christ at an emergent church in a big city, had never really been close with anyone who considered entertaining evolution to be heretical! We fully reconciled with our friends and are still doing home church with them. We just don’t talk about Genesis anymore… (As an aside - it has gotten me thinking about just how much you’d have to carefully avoid if you are teaching your children that YEC is the only valid interpretation of Genesis. You can’t read the mag or watch National Geographic programs and there are so many books we check out from the library that are just about animals or whatever that mention ‘extended geologic time’… speaking of, we were at a children’s museum in the nearby larger city a few weeks ago and they had a sign up in front of an exhibit on ice age animals that read “Warning: This exhibit contains references to extended geologic time”. Only in Kansas?! Still, being close friends with someone who only teaches YEC to their kids has also softened me about the idea that one is somehow ‘damaging’ or doing their kids a major disservice by doing so.)
I feel like this pretty much dispelled my husband and I’s differences about evolution, in part because we were of one mind about not agreeing with our friends’ YEC interpretation. I’ve also been trying to surrender the issue to God, and honor and respect my husband per Kathryn’s (and God’s!) advice and that, coupled with discussing the issue with our friends, has (I think) softened his defenses about it. I’ve realized it’s not paramount that I impose all this on my children immediately. One wonderful thing about homeschooling is that it routinely prompts me to re-evaluate my idea of what an education is and what is really important to learn and know. In this, as in all other areas of my life, God is continually drawing me into deeper trust in Him. I routinely pray for wisdom to shepherd and teach them in the way he needs me to in order to equip them for the work / role he has for them in the body of Christ.
I am so grateful for this forum and how helpful everyone is! Thank you!
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I learned yesterday that in Alabama public schools, by law biology textbooks have to have a sticker in the book that says evolution is a controversial theory, not a fact. Public school teachers were not even required to teach evolution in biology class until they wrote it into the state standards in 2015. I’m such a Northerner because that is almost incomprehensible to me. The professor who was giving the presentation about teaching evolution in the South was on some advisory council to the Smithsonian. They had a bunch of Christians review their human origins exhibit to try to make it the least offensive possible to Southerners (and other religious people).
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I think a lot depends on how you teach kids about alternative interpretations. One speaker at the conference stated that kids as early as 5th grade have negative views of science if in that environment. That then can lead to rejection of the church so indeed can be harmful. Here is a link to the presenters blog, which expands that point.
http://www.discoveryandfaith.org/a-different-narrative/
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I totally agree. My wife and I tried to steer our kids in the Christian Faith (as Catholics), but it usually surprises parents at how quickly kids mature and need to make decisions on their own. Whether or not they accept evolution as “true” will not be crucial in how each lives a good Christian life, Ashley. But you keeping a loving, peaceable relationship with your husband will be important to them for as long as they live. My wife & I will celebrate our 70th wedding anniversary this summer (the Good Lord willing), and are more in love than ever. That’s a legacy that you two can pass down to several generations. Please don’t let unnecessary arguments interfere.
God Bless
Al Leo
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You’re not alone! And welcome to Kansas! Thanks for your testimony – a good balance of relationship and respect for truth.
I just added another homemade poster to my classroom wall timeline; this one featuring St. Augustine. There are a few students in at least one Christian school (and I hope not the only one!) in Kansas who I hope are being challenged to engage the evidence at a higher level. I’ll paste what I wrote below.
Augustine converted to the Christian faith as an adult and consequently exerted more influence in its spread and development than perhaps anyone since Paul. In fact, it was Augustine that heavily influenced how we now read and understand Paul. He was venerated by Catholics and respected by Protestants too and with very good reason: Augustine brought faith together with logic and reason, bringing Greek thought to bear on Christianity. Much of Plato’s philosophy about body and soul, the earthly and the heavenly would later become tightly intertwined with western Christian thought itself. For better or worse, we have Augustine to thank for this marriage of Hebrew and Hellenistic (Greek) philosophy.
Augustine also insisted on reading scriptures literally. But this may not mean what some today think it means. What he meant by this was that one should try to discern the intended teaching of the author. So, for example, in his commentary on Genesis 1, Augustine maintained that the intent of the author was not to tell us God would need six whole days to create everything (Augustine believed God actually must have done it in an instant!) but that the literal intent here is metaphorical, to teach us about the different dimensions of being. So, long before any influence of modern science, church fathers (Augustine wasn’t the only one) were discerning literal teachings in Scriptures that go deeper than what some today have taught themselves to see as a “plain reading.” In fact, almost as if he was anticipating the coming Copernican revolution and Galileo debacle, Augustine wrote this in his “The Literal Meaning of Genesis”:
If they [non-believers] find a Christian mistaken in a field which they themselves know well and hear him maintaining his foolish opinions about our books, how are they going to believe those books in matters concerning the resurrection of the dead, the hope of eternal life, and the kingdom of heaven, when they think their pages are full of falsehoods on facts which they themselves have learnt from experience and the light of reason?
This sentiment would find later echoes from John Calvin, and perhaps even in controversies surrounding science and faith today. One should not think for a moment that Augustine was skeptical about miracles – he wasn’t. He was a champion of experience and reason helping to illuminate our understandings of Scripture which cannot, after all, teach falsehood. This would also anticipate the later “two books” metaphor – see Francis Bacon. Do you think modern issues over deep time or evolutionary origins would change Augustine’s mindset if he were around today? Why, or why not?
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Just as a data point: in 1998 when I visited the Stephen Birch Aquarium in La Jolla (San Diego), California, I saw that the staff had placed a small, inconspicuous white sign at the entrance to one particular exhibit. Of course I don’t remember the exact wording, but I remember the gist of it clearly: “Please note this exhibit talks about evolution”. I was quite startled; this was in California in a major suburban (and upscale) neighborhood of a major city, and the Birch Aquarium is affiliated with the famous and secular Scripps Institution of Oceanography.
I suppose it was explained by San Diego’s deep-red Republican roots (yes, sorry my Republican Christian evolutionist friends, but then, just as now, evangelicalism and creationism correlate with Republican, more than Democratic or independent, party identification). The younger generation may have been trending more liberal (as today), but the older generation (where all the donor money is) was still Republican and conservative, and most Christians among them would be creationists. After all, this was in the day that San Diego (Santee specifically, IIRC) was the home of the ICR (Institute for Creation Research), the most significant young-earth creationist organization in America at the time (ICR has since moved to Texas and, IMHO, faded and been replaced in that role by Answers in Genesis).
I don’t live in the area and haven’t ever had the opportunity to go back, but I’ve often wondered if they still have that sign up.
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Crazy! I’m no Northerner (grew up in Missouri), but I don’t remember anything like that going on. Pretty sure I was taught evolution in school… I never liked science while in school so I didn’t pay a lot of attention!
Interesting! So it’s not just super-conservative Kansas