Did Jesus walk on water or is the story just a literary device?

I actually heard a seminary professor maintain that this was a case of Jesus being “absent minded”, forgetting to stick to His human abilities! but prior to that neglecting to get in the boat with the disciples when they set out.

It’s more reasonable to consider this as what John calls a “sign”, an action performed as a signifier of Jesus’ identity. In fact the account as written by John is intriguing because it uses a phrase quite common to Mark:

and immediately the boat was at the land to which they were going.

“Immediately” (“straightaway” in some translations) is so common in Mark it’s almost an identifying marker, but in John it’s used very sparingly. It should be noted, though, that “straightaway” is actually the better translation because the word εὐθύς or εὐθέως (same word, different spelling) doesn’t mean “instantaneously” but refers to an interval that is short but also uneventful. So John is contrasting the effort of the disciples rowing for several miles already and then the consternation of seeing Jesus walking calmly on what they’d been laboring through with the peace and calm – and presumably meditative silence! – after Jesus was in the boat.

Matthew’s version actually shows this as a “sign”, an action that reveals Jesus’ identity, writing:

And those in the boat worshiped him, saying, “Truly you are the Son of God.”

This is a bit of a follow-up to a different sign that happened earlier: Jesus commanding a storm to “chill!”, as one first-year NT Greek student I knew rendered it. On that occasion the disciples responded with questioning among themselves,

Who is this that the wind and sea obey Him?

Knowing their Old Testament scriptures they might have made the connection that it is God who stills the storm and calms the sea, but they didn’t quite make that leap, so we can see this action as a continuation of the lesson; they didn’t get it before, so Jesus ups the ante with a control of the sea that goes beyond just giving orders – walking on the sea declares His lordship over it without even needing to give commands; it serves Him as He wills.

Literary device? No: this shows the disciples in a bad light! They didn’t get the lesson when Jesus gave orders to the sea and weather, so it took this second demonstration to get the point across – and then the one disciple who had the courage to try going over to Jesus on the water fails in his faith just as he reaches Jesus!

It’s also interesting that John sandwiches the account with another failed lesson: seeing Him feed a huge crowd with just a small amount of food should have reminded many, even most of them of the manna God provided in the wilderness. They saw His disciples get into the boat and leave, but in the morning Jesus is also gone, and when they find Him back on the other side of the sea at least some of them ought to have recognized that something beyond the ordinary had happened. They do ask how He got there, but instead of answering that Jesus picks up on the (failed) lesson from the day before, first commenting on their motives for effectively chasing across the sea after the disciples when they couldn’t find Him, then shifting into the significance of His supplying bread the day before.

Now John’s arrangement, putting the incident in the middle of another lesson where the crowd of so-so-maybe disciples had to have things pointed out to them, with the core disciples also being rather obtuse, is perhaps a literary device – though I wouldn’t put it past Jesus to do it that way on purpose " to make a point or two for the benefit of his disciples and perhaps for Peter in particular."

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I tend to take the miracle stories literally, but I wonder if this might be a post-resurrection appearance.

A professor of New Testament studies I was privileged to take some classes from once commented, in relation to John’s account and concerning Jesus, “Everything He does, teaches”. John makes that explicit by referring to miracles as “signs”, but it fits all the miracles Jesus did – “signs” point to just who Jesus is, and that is a form of teaching. At the same time, the miracles weren’t just some kind of a show; they flowed naturally from who Jesus was/is, i.e. they were expressions of His character.

So, a question: given that the synoptic Gospels were written and distributed while eyewitnesses were still around, would any of the writers have dared to invent some miracle to make a point about Jesus? It would have been so easy for someone to speak up and say, “That didn’t happen!”, especially if it was one of the Twelve who supposedly had been at the alleged event. And there’s this: if a reported miracle is put in the story to tell about Jesus’ character, given who Jesus was/is doesn’t it make more sense that Jesus actually did what was written down, since doing it illustrates His character? Half of the point of His ministry was making clear just Who He was, and actually doing those miracles rather than just having some of the disciples make them up and writing them down testifies to His character more than if they’d been made up. In short, if they express Jesus’ character (and identity), the likelihood is that He really did them.

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I see no reason not to believe this really happened. I also see no reason to believe there was any supernatural magic, or that there was no rational scientific explanation for it. Thinking about it rationally Jesus was not actually walking on the top of the water. This isn’t logically possible in a stormy sea because walking and talking requires a (mostly) flat unchanging surface. A ping pong ball sits on the top of the water and in a stormy sea it would be bobbing up and down as well as tossed into the air. If Jesus was doing such a thing, surely the story would have said so.

Miracle, yes. Supernatural magic no. I think this even is more of a source of metaphor than an example of metaphor.

That is where we disagree. I think the opposite is more sensible, that the description is more compatible with a scientific explanation and the supposed supernatural explanation isn’t even coherent. In fact, I think this an example of a typical god of the gaps methodology sweeping things under the divine rug so as to abolish any actual thought on the matter.

I think the story is describing Jesus walking on a flat solid surface under the top of the water. And if that flat solid surface is made of water then it would logically be ice, since that is the word we use for water in a solid form.

Now if the story had him walking above the surface of the water that would be a different matter.

I think that depends on how they’re applied. There’s only been brief mention of science on this, but it is an interesting question: such miracles demonstrate Jesus’ identity, but that doesn’t make asking “How?” useless. To readers back then, the fact that He did it is sufficient; we more (scientifically) curious moderns like to poke into just what way He commanded the water so that He could walk on it – if that’s what He did; there’s nothing saying He didn’t do “contact levitation” so that as long as His feet were touching the water His weight was cancelled…
Except if His weight was cancelled, that just makes it more complex: if His weight was cancelled, what about His mass? If His mass was cancelled in order to cancel His weight, the wind would have blown Him around. Or is this levitation just carefully applied antigravity?
Personally it makes more sense if He took a piece of simpler natural law and applied it – that’s how the water to wine was done: God turns water to wine all the time, He just usually uses vines and grapes and rain and sun. So also God makes things stay on top of the water all the time – I’m thinking of skipping rocks (which remind me of Peter: at first they bounce off the water but eventually sink), which is an application of force to overcome gravity via Newton’s laws. So I immediately think of surface tension, which allows spiders and insects to walk on water, and just amplifying it enough to support human weight.

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I don’t believe Jesus was a purveyor of optical illusions and parlor tricks.

It occurred to me that we could have some fun if we could alter this one or that one on a very localized basis, so that a lead balloon could rise, for instance (or pigs fly? ; - ). Maybe that’s what some miracles are, and the Creator of the Cosmos incarnate could do just that, temporarily altering the necessary physical constant(s), including chemical reaction speeds perhaps.

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Ever heard of the Basilisk lizard aka the Jesus Christ Lizard?

It can walk on water

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Most of us have I expect, except maybe the youngest among us.

Why would it? It’s about science and faith. What’s a scientific explanation for this? Must science and faith always align? I’m not sure if you read the entire post, but I specifically mention the word science in it opening up the discussion for a scientific critique of this.

This is a person we believe rose from the dead a few years later…isn’t it? Why does this story need to be broken down into believable bits?

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The tag for this post is “biblical-interpretation.”

And one of their examples of what’s unacceptable is interpretation of revelation.

It’s true you included the word “scientifically.” We should all remember that. I think a bar is technically a restaurant if it sells peanuts. Maybe add a science tag just to be safe.

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I’m personally curious as to how Mitchell understands this story as an event that happened that’s not out of line with science. But I doubt most posts about science and faith are going to be these purely mechanical posts.

If you’re weightless, levitating, walking gets you nowhere. Surface tension strong enough to support a man would have to be a million times stronger, as would viscosity to provide friction. Just materialize ground under every step. Make the water rheopectic. Add a lot of custard powder to it.

Or just locally change the appropriate universal constant(s).

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For me what I am asking is what are the opinions people have in here ranging from naturalistic to supernatural. Such as with the Red Sea. Some believe the events were real and have scientific responses to it concerning wind and so on. Some believe it’s purely supernatural. But to stay out of echo chambers it’s helpful to pose questions to a wide range of beliefs. Just because Jesus rose from the dead does not necessarily mean I must take every story at face value. Someone up towards the beginning brought up genre and so on.

How do you think I’ve developed there? I’m not super familiar with that area. Would ice bridges be common there?

A quick google search , if true, mentioned the coldest temp in Israel , at least in the last century or so was 34°f and so perhaps it could have dropped below that to freezing temps. But then, for enough ice to develop to be able to walk on it would require that temperature for a decent amount of time. But if it was a freak cold storm, that would also explain why the apostles were freaked out. If you’re not expecting an ice bridge, and one was there and Jesus was simply guided to it and walking that way then it’s plausible they would be equally freaked out.

It’s like in the Gulf of Mexico. If a mile out in the gulf a once chunk developed you could walk on, and I was kayaking and seen someone walking on it, I would presume something supernatural happening when it was just extremely abnormal but natural nonetheless.

Would you mind quoting some modern scholars who disagree with my claims regarding visions vs real events as illustrated?

i provided you with 3 very good examples from the text that illustrate my point…these are not “half-quotes”. I am more than happy to post the entire narratives or visions if that is what is required to satisfy a claim of “half-quotes”. The reason why the entire passages were not quoted should be blunty obvious to you…this is a forum, not a library! If you want to entire quote, then you should do as the Bereans did…go and read it for yourself! I can assure you that if i were to add more to the above-quoted passages, it only strengthens my argument!

Theologically, unless you understand the concept of type and antitype when it comes to biblical symbolism, you cannot possibly understand why literal ancient history is used throughout the bible to teach us. This does not mean that these narratives are fiction, it simply means that God uses real events as an example…as i said in my last post (and as I am a trained teacher i suppose i should know), this technique is regularly used throughout education and training today. For example:

  1. modern militaries use historical battles to help teach battle tactics
  2. The old Testament Sanctuary Service was a historical activity…real life daily event that the Israelites undertook for hundreds of years prior to Christ…clearly not and allegory. However, this was the Type. The Antitype of the earthly Sanctuary Service undertaken by the Israelites was the death and resurrection of the Messiah, and then into the distant future…the Salvation and Redemption of mankind and finally, the laying of the blame for all sins of mankind on Satan (the scapegoat)!

As i said, with even just a little theological knowledge and study, its easy to pick the difference between symbolism, allegories, literal events, etc. The bible is so consistent in this way and particularly considering related passages in other books of the bible are so plentiful… so we don’t really have problems in understanding where and when to make the distinction. Let face it, if scholars did not use a bit of theological common sense on these things, the trinity doctrine would never have passed the stink test at the council of Nicea in 325!

Perhaps i can add another illustration…and since you demand more than “half quotes”…let me fill your head with this to consider…

Is the following allegory or literal?

Mesha Stele (found 1868)

On 8 February 1870, George Grove of the Palestine Exploration Fund announced the find of the stele in a letter to The Times, attributing the discovery to Charles Warren. On 17 February 1870, the 24-year-old Clermont-Ganneau published the first detailed announcement of the stele in the Revue de l’Instruction Publique.[20] This was followed a month later by a note from Frederick Augustus Klein published in the Pall Mall Gazette, describing his discovery of the stele in August 1868:

… I afterwards ascertained that [Ganneau’s] assertion as to no European having, before me, seen the stone was perfectly true. … I am sorry to find that I was also the last European who had the privilege of seeing this monument of Hebrew antiquity in its perfect state of preservation.

What about the text on the Bassalt rock itself?

I am Mesha, son of Chemosh-gad,[27] king of Moab, the Dibonite. My father reigned over Moab thirty years, and I have reigned after my father. And I have built this sanctuary for Chemosh in Karchah, a sanctuary of salvation, for he saved me from all aggressors, and made me look upon all mine enemies with contempt.

Omri was king of Israel, and oppressed Moab during many days, and Chemosh was angry with his aggressions. His son succeeded him, and he also said, I will oppress Moab. In my days he said, Let us go, and I will see my desire upon him and his house, and Israel said, I shall destroy it for ever. Now Omri took the land of Madeba, and occupied it in his day, and in the days of his son, forty years. And Chemosh had mercy on it in my time. And I built Baal-meon and made therein the ditch, and I built Kiriathaim.

And the men of Gad dwelled in the country of Ataroth from ancient times, and the king of Israel fortified Ataroth. I assaulted the wall and captured it, and killed all the warriors of the city for the well-pleasing of Chemosh and Moab, and I removed from it all the spoil, and offered it before Chemosh in Kirjath; and I placed therein the men of Siran, and the men of Mochrath. And Chemosh said to me, Go take Nebo against Israel, and I went in the night and I fought against it from the break of day till noon, and I took it: and I killed in all seven thousand men…women and maidens, for I devoted them to Ashtar-Chemosh; and I took from it the vessels of Jehovah, and offered them before Chemosh.

And the king of Israel fortified Jahaz, and occupied it, when he made war against me, and Chemosh drove him out before me, and I took from Moab two hundred men in all, and placed them in Jahaz, and took it to annex it to Dibon.

I built Karchah the wall of the forest, and the wall of the Hill. I have built its gates and I have built its towers. I have built the palace of the king, and I made the prisons for the criminals within the wall. And there were no wells in the interior of the wall in Karchah. And I said to all the people, ‘Make you every man a well in his house.’ And I dug the ditch for Karchah with the chosen men of Israel. I built Aroer, and I made the road across the Arnon. I built Beth-Bamoth for it was destroyed. I built Bezer for it was cut down by the armed men of Daybon, for all Daybon was now loyal; and I reigned from Bikran, which I added to my land. And I built Beth-Gamul, and Beth-Dibla

Does this mean you don’t believe optical illusions exist?

Or does it mean you don’t believe God created the world?

Or does it mean you don’t believe Jesus is God?

Are you claiming to have walked on water using a parlor trick?

If Jesus is God, and God created the world, and optical illusions exist then Jesus is a purveyor of optical illusions. Simple logic. Please send us a video of your walking on water parlor trick.

Is your Bible next to Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings on your shelf?

Sounds miraculous huh?

Do you resort to supernatural magic explanations for other things in your life?

Is your toaster burning toast because of demons or gremlins?

Or do you only do supernatural magic explanations for books like the Bible, Harry Potter, and the Lord of the Rings?

I would just carry the same logic a little farther and look for ice as an example of walking on water in a solid form.