Is this supposed to be the historical evidence? Hearsay from Plato in Timmeaus doesn’t fit my definition of historical evidence for a worldwide Genesis flood thousands of years prior. Not to mention, I am not even sure how they are connected or whether the hearsay of these ancient Egyptians has any merit.
When Mark has him declaring all foods clean? When he dismisses what the OT says about divorce proceedings as rubbish? When he says to love your neighbor? Jesus can stand by the Old Testament. So does everyone who subscribed to accommodation. Doesn’t mean Jesus was a wooden literalist or Christologyicaly speaking, even if he was, why that matters. His divinity is not impaired by his humanity (to steal @Klax’s line).
Interesting thoughts here, Vinnie…and you do include some of the range of issues at play. A Flood, for example, was part of Sumerian belief in the sense of a “before the Flood” and “after the Flood” rendition of some of their history. Many cultures around the world do have some sort of Flood account, although no one can say but what they are local events common to cultures built near water. In the Mesopotamian versions (of which several exist), Atrahasis (sometimes aka Gilgamesh) is an interesting story. No one knows really when the Genesis Flood and also the Gilgamesh (or other flood stories) were composed, or which came first. The one attached to the Epic of Gilgamesh was a later addition. I suppose that I “hooked” onto your notation of the Flood event more than to some of the other points you made. An especially disastrous Flood may have accounted for the one in the biblical text…in that case, the Flood account that Jesus taught was an actual event. Also, the biblical text’s assertion that it was God’s punishment of the generation of that time – some say it was punishment for the earlier events of Genesis 6 – would stand. And thus, Jesus believing it “was literal” is not so much the issue as (probably) the “worldwide” concept…What did they mean by that? (“I will bring a flood of waters upon the earth to destroy all flesh…Everything that is on the earth shall die” (Genesis 6:17)
The flood was an actual event. World wide. Why was there a flood?
Because of the condition of the human heart.
I know some people will not agree with this teaching but if the Word of God says it happened, it happened. We can talk until we are blue in the face to discuss the Word but if you are not understanding the truth, it is because the Lord has not revealed it to you. People try and use the Bible as a text book without the One who enlightens us to His truth.
Born once is the working of one under the sin nature, born twice is the working of Christ in you.
I hope people will actually listen to the study before responding with their own human intellect.
Thanks for the reference, Kelli. I think the original post by Vinnie was part of his own struggle to come to terms with some things. I will listen to the Klein speech when I am not so busy. MERRY CHRISTMAS
Real: that is entirely reasonable, and I would agree.
World-wide, it cannot have encompassed the whole world in the modern sense. “Whole world” is frequently used for “whole known world”, like in Isaiah 23:17 and Luke 2:1. The passage can reasonable be interpreted to refer to “all the area known to those who survived it”, and if this were a low, flat area, the mountains/high hills need not be overly tall. A flood covering the entirety of earth’s surface in water would produce a produce a noticeable geological and biological signal of a type that has not yet been found.
Hi beaglelady
The Bible does not contradict itself. If we are lacking in understanding then people can very well speak of things that they do not understand or comprehend.
Well, maybe you have a different Bible than I do. In Genesis 1 It says that God creates animals and then creates man. But in Genesis 2 God creates man and then creates animals. Does your Bible show this?
In the NT, there are two Nativity narratives, in Luke and Matthew, and they don’t agree. Can you see that in your Bible?
Now for the Gospels on Page VI that we’ve gone through, there are actually four Gospels Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. The first three Gospels Matthew, Mark, and Luke are called the Synoptic Gospels. These three were written in the mid 60s AD and the name synoptic comes from the Greek word sunovyi~ (SUNOPSIS) which means to view together. All three of these Gospels were written to different groups of people with different themes. Some of them have the same teachings but they are arranged for their audience.
Matthew was written to the Jews, and written to present Jesus as the coming Savior Messiah. Matthew’s gospel ends with the resurrection.
Then there’s Mark. Mark was written for the Roman mind, written from the testimony of Peter, written to present Jesus as the Suffering Servant. And his book ends with the ascension.
And then Luke that we just finished written to the Gentiles, written to present Jesus as the Son of man, the head of the human race. Luke ends his gospel with the promise of the coming of the Holy Spirit, which is interesting that just sets up his sequel because the book of Acts was also written by Luke. In fact Luke and Acts traveled together for quite some time as the Gospel of Luke Part 1 and 2 but later was divided. And we’ll get into Acts after we get through with John.
Then we have the gospel of John Page VII. It is written to the church, written around 95 AD so approximately 30 to 35 years after the other Gospels were written and the Gospel John was one of the last letters written.
In fact there’s much evidence to say that the Gospel John and 1, 2 and 3 John and Revelation all those were written by John there’s evidence that he wrote all those letters one right after another all at the same time.
Pastor Bill Klein
We live in a world shaped by water. On the granite continents there is on average water deposited sediments one mile thick. Most landscapes are shaped by water, caves are created by water. Absolutely does not rule out a global flood.
This explanation in AIG helps to clear up any question of whether Genesis 1 & 2 contradict each other. After looking into this we find there are, in fact, no contradictions in God’s Word.
We all agree that whatever God says is our authority. Some of us just disagree with your opinion of what you think God’s word says. Disagreeing with you and your model of inspiration and hermeneutic for interpreting Scripture is not synonymous with disagreeing with God.
Do you believe Judas Didymus Thomas wrote the Gospel of Thomas? Did the Apostle Peter write the Gospel of Peter? Is the correspondence between Paul and Seneca written by Paul? Did Paul author the letter to the Laodiceans? Did Barnabas author the Gospel of Barnabas? Did Judas author the Gospel of Judas?
Traditional authorship has little basis in reality for our gospels, all of which are completely anonymous.