If that is what you see then, I guess, you are incapable of seeing anything else.
That is a poor analogy. Sin cannot infect it has no substance or transferability.
It would seem that, despite protest against, you have athropomorphisised sin.
Richard
just because you can not reproduce does not mean you are dead. Otherwise the âsnipâ would be lethal 
You wouldnât be here if it wasnât for reproduction. One odd statistic is that 100% of people alive today had parents who reproduced.
That is not relevant to the point @marvin was making. And âparentsâ mean quite a bit more than reproduction. So the fact is that people do have (or have had) parents who have not reproduced. And they may have good reason to think the people who reproduced them are not in any way deserving to be called parents.
To be sure sometimes the denial of biological realities does seem a bit absurd⌠like the popular rejection of the idea that reproduction is purpose of sex. OK so it is used for quite a bit more than that, and when the participants have not intention of reproducing. But it does seem a bit silly to ignore the fact that without reproduction, sex would not exist. Yes there are examples of sexual activity in animals which do not directly relate to reproduction. But does this change the reason why these organs and their functionality exist in the first place?
We were talking about the general definition for life. I proposed that reproduction is a vital part of that definition. This would apply to all life, from asexual bacteria to sexually reproducing animals.
@marvin quipped that if reproduction was the definition of life then we would cease to exist if we were spayed or neutered (to use the veterinarian terms). It was a good quip, I will give him that.
And if we encounter a living organism like Turritopsis dohrnii but incapable of reproduction, will we conclude that it is not alive? I donât think so.
And suppose we even find that this organism came about by process rather different from evolution â adapting and learning without reproduction? Seems possible to me. And so I would suggest (as others have) that reproduction is a strategy of life rather than the essence of life.
On the other hand⌠there is still growth⌠and growth is a kind of reproduction â reproducing its processes. So perhaps with some extention of the idea of reproduction the claim might be a little stronger.
But I cannot help wondering⌠perhaps this only means life requires reproduction somewhere in its origins and development. And not that it doesnât mean an end result is not alive simply because it doesnât reproduce. Of course I have already ruled out the idea of a living organism being a product of design. I think that should be called a machine and not a living organism.
They are capable of reproduction.
Even if they reproduced through binary fission, that is still reproduction just as it is in bacteria.
Colonial organisms may be problematic to classify, such as a single colonial organism that spanned an entire planet. However, evolution tends to drive competition so I would be very surprised to find a planet with a single species comprised of a single individual.
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And I am dubious of my implied suggestion of the possibility of life without growth (which is a kind of reproduction).
It is a fair point, however, even if it leads to dead ends. We could come across a planet that had one bacteria sized organism that was immortal and never reproduced. Would we call that life? I think we would. I think it is fair to point out how we bias our definitions towards what we know as life.
But what are the chances of coming across a single celled organism that just happened to never die through all the trials and tribulations of existing? Probably pretty low. Even the immortal jellyfish die because of dangers in the environment like predation and possibly disease.
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Ah yes it does. Mythical tales of a massive flood exist in quite a number of cultures, they do not have to be indentical to the bible story to support it. The supporting evidence is that so many claims of a catastrophic flood event are found in historical/mythical tales.
You are reading my statement far too literally there expecting identical in every case. The notion of Chinese whispers proves that will never be the case.
Only if the global flood started as a trickle and took many years to fill up just the Black Sea.
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What wouldnât support a recent global flood? What features would a geologic formation need in order to falsify a recent global flood? Can you think of any evidence that would disprove it?
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This can have many explanations, including the spread of such tales to other people by means of human communication. Combined with how common large local floods are, providing independent stories of such floods, this is more than enough to explain the mythical tales of a massive flood in so many different cultures.
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yes but you know one of the major problems with that statementâŚhow do you explain very similar catastrophic global flood events among civilizations that have had nothing to do with each other according to the evolution of mankind?
Let me just cite a few examples where indigenous peoples have a global flood story:
AI Overview
Many Indigenous cultures around the world have stories about a global flood, often incorporating these myths into creation stories or narratives about the origins of specific landforms or geographic features. These stories can be viewed as not only historical records of natural events, but also as ways to understand morality, spirituality, and connection to the land.
Hereâs a closer look at some examples:
Australian Aboriginal Flood Stories:
- Great Flood Stories:
Many Indigenous communities in Australia have stories about a great flood that changed the landscape, including the formation of Port Phillip Bay.
- Tiddalik the Frog:
A widely known Aboriginal story tells of a frog who drank up all the water, causing a drought, and how the animals tricked him into releasing the water, causing a flood.
- Dreamtime Snakes:
Some stories mention Dreamtime snakes, like in the story of Kalpartu, who cause a flood to punish those who mistreat them.
- Coastal Flooding:
Stories exist about how rising sea levels flooded coastal areas, transforming land into islands.
- Gurawul the Whale:
A Yuin story recounts the journey of Uncle Max to Tasmania to find the whale Gurawul, a creature revered by First Nations communities, which may be linked to flood myths.
Other Indigenous Flood Myths:
- Mesopotamian Flood Myths:
The Gilgamesh Epic and other Mesopotamian myths include stories of a great flood, some of which may be related to the biblical story of Noahâs Ark.
- Thai Flood Myth:
The myth of Pu Sangkasa and Ya Sangkasi tells of a flood sent by the supreme god to punish wicked humans, with some people surviving in a magical gourd, according to Wikipedia.
- Maya Flood Myth:
The Popol Vuh, a collection of Mayan texts, includes stories of floods, both in the creation of the world and in prophecies about the end of the world.
- Native American Flood Myths:
A video on YouTube explores Native American flood myths, often incorporating themes of creation, punishment, and survival.
one of the problems there is that we have opposing pathways between the bible and evolution:
Bible - mankind came from the mountains of Ararat down into Mesopotamia where the tower of Babel was built and then spreading out from that area (this is not to say that other individuals went to other places before BabelâŚhowever, the main biblical theme is that area was the central hub.
Evolution - Out of Africa. One of the oldest known cultures claimed by evolution to have come from out of Africa are the Australian Aboriginals 40,000-70,000 years ago
Note this Aboriginal story of a great global flood (not a localised event) recited by J.B. Gibbs in the Daily News (Perth WA Saturday 28th November 1936)
You see, this is a stuff that evolutionary theory mixed with religion has caused. TEism jumped on the âmankind has evolved from more than just a single familyâ bandwagon and what is now problematic for your claim, where did those others come from with whom the early human populations interbred with?
Id suggest the only way for a Christian to resolve this dilemma is to rewrite Genesis 1 and 2 such that they talk of two different groups of individualsâŚeven though there is no solid theological evidence to support such a claim.
I feel for you buddy. The problems with your approach must be legion. I certainly will not ignore all the evidence just in order to make an anti-science misuse of the scriptures work the way you do. Remember, that I started with the scientific worldview, and only asked if the Bible was worth the paper it was printed on given all science has discovered about the universe.
Just did.
Evolution is only the origin of our bodies. The content of our minds and stories doesnât come from evolution. That is a matter of human communication. It only takes one year to walk around the world, so communication between separated peoples does not take that long.
But like I said, that by itself does not have to account for all the stories, because great floods are common. I certainly donât see how frogs, snakes and whales have anything in common with the story of Noah. And floods for punishment? That has been the most common explanation for every kind of disaster. So THAT as a similarity to Noahâs flood will not do it at all.
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True; and every year, there are devastating floods which happen as natural events somewhere on earth to inspire such stories.
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What in the text tells you that they arenât about two different groups of people? Thereâs certainly nothing theological that says they have to be.
And FWIW, not all of the flood stories that the google AI listed are stated as being global.
Google AI cannot be trusted to be accurate.
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and i responded to that with the Perth newspaper article from 1930âs (that you have not even tried to reference or address here) that shows that the Aboriginal story of a global flood is almost identical to the Noahs ark story of the bible. Given the Aboriginal culture is one of the worlds oldest, that strongly aligns with the Biblical tale as being much more than a mythical fairytale and this is quite different from other indigenous cultures where the myth is notably dissimilar to the Biblical account of the Global Flood.
but the difference here is, the 1930âs Perth Newspaper article i presented contains a story that is of a âGlobal Flood Catastrophe, a man and a women, who floated in the flood waters on a wooden treeâ. That is very different than what you are proposing.
The localised flood events are also found in Aboriginal culture for explaining other things such as how rivers were formedâŚthese are significantly different from the one in that news paper article.