OK so you admit you do not believe any of the ages in Genesis. You then say toy believe Enoch existed as a man. So Luke, Jude and Paul and Genesis are all wrong according to you. I think that establishes your position clearly. Thank you
So believing the age of Enoch in Scripture makes on all that in your opinion. OK. Probably no need to ask if you believe he lived that long or was taken alive by God to heaven.
Thank you for the confession
AI mode:
No, there is no manuscript evidence—earlier or otherwise—showing that Enoch’s age was ever anything other than 365 years
in the ancient Hebrew text tradition.
Every ancient, primary manuscript of Genesis that we possess stabilizes his age at 365. This includes:
- The Masoretic Text (the standard Hebrew Bible)
- The Samaritan Pentateuch (an ancient alternative Hebrew tradition)
- The Septuagint (LXX) (the ancient Greek translation from the 3rd century BCE)
1 Like
Where did Luke, Jude and Paul say anything about Enoch’s age?
1 Like
I’ve never been too concerned about ages in Genesis, although some of them do strike me as potentially interesting symbolically. If one were to take a nonliteral approach then I don’t think his age at having a son is an issue, since his age in general would be a literary thing rather than a factual thing either way. But his age has always been the least interesting thing about him.
Jude quotes 1 Enoch in an interesting way and the author of Hebrews talks about him as having been taken to heaven, which is pretty well in line with stuff like 1 Enoch. I’ve always wondered how Enoch was interpreted before the Second Temple period, because Genesis itself is pretty ambiguous on what “God took him” means. Obviously the Enochian literature expands on things very creatively, but does anyone know if there’s any literature on how he was perceived before that, or if he was even considered important at all?
2 Likes
He was mentioned. For example Hebrews 11:5
By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
That is from Genesis, and if part of the verse about Enoch is true in Genesis (translated) there is zero reason to assume Paul was covering up some false part.
That would be fraud. Giving a chronology with offspring and lifespan of many many people that was totally false. For Christians, it doesn’t matter how anything was interpreted or not. If an apostle of Jesus writing a book of the bible says something, that overrules any former would be wise men.
Yes – it has been argued about for over two millennia
Since you like playing science games with scripture, another possibility is that somewhere in our “junk” DNA there is a sequence that gave us a far stronger immune system and longer production of youth hormones, and all God did was insert a codon to deactivate that.
Of course they can, and faithful Jews and Christians since at least 150 B.C. have done so.
One interpretation I like is from a rabbi who said that the 365, being the number of days in a year, symbolized that Enoch led a perfectly balanced and filled life; related to it is the interpretation that it means that Enoch’s life was as full of years as a year is of days (not sure what that means but it sounds similar).
Nope – it’s just recognizing that the ancient Israelites used numbers in symbolical ways and asking if that happened here.
Your approach to scripture is like a guy who looked at a pizza and said that since everyone there likes cheese then everyone will like the whole pizza regardless of what else is on it: you grab a piece, you make a decision, and you say that disagreeing with your decision means no one gets to interpret anything related to it differently, either.
Do you mean interpreting ancient genealogies as more than just itemised historical records would be fraud? Or was that to do with the second part of what I said? I’m not sure what you mean by former wise men.
I guess he inserted a magic codon into trees as well so they grew in weeks? Also into all the animals so they live the years they do? Did He run around and catch each spirit on earth and insert one in them as well, so they could no loner live here openly and marry etc? Perhaps He commissioned billion trillion pixies to help with the job?
Scripture does not say Enoch represented a year (years were 360 days then anyhow) because he was balanced. I wonder if your rabbi believes Enoch was translated? 
False extrapolation.
Only by the understanding of a very recent worldview.
Anyone that preceded the writers of the new testament who had opinions are overruled if they differ from apostles etc. The genealogies were given in the gospels you know. That means they are certified correct.
It’s better than claiming God is not faithful to His unbreakable covenant with the fixed laws of heaven and earth – it has Him using those laws, not changing them.
Hardly my rabbi; that was circa 100 B.C.
Of course he did – there are no numbers there, so why would he take it as symbolic?
The fact that Enoch is mentioned in Luke, Jude and by Paul is actually a true and amazing fact that proves he was real. His translation happened. If you want to claim half of the passage about Enoch was a lie in genesis, you have no ground to stand on. No. The genealogy in the gospel can’t be made up. To claim the Scripture they used was wrong is the modern worldview
I don’t know, apparently the Sadducee in Jesus’ day did not believe in a resurrection of the dead. But if the dead rabbi did not believe Enoch lived the time Scripture says, so what?
What He will not break is His word. Not a jot or tittle. As for some weird interpretation of his covenant with the sun and days etc etc, that is wrong. It leaves no room for the world of changes He promised to do and will do and that have been done. Walking on water is not having physics be unchangeable, Being raised from the dead is not having physics unchanged in some misconstrued covenant! Opening and closing portals in space to bring water for the flood was not breaking any covenant. etc etc etc etc etc etc etc When He makes the stars and sun go out in the end that is not breaking any covenant. When every island on earth is moved away from it’s place that is not breaking any covenant. When God stopped the sun in the sky for some guy in the old testament, that was not breaking any covenant. You just try to squash all the changes in nature that happened since creation and wave them away. Ho hum
Luke left the ages out. He also added Cainan back in between Arphaxad and Shelah. Cainan must have been a bad boy that was wiped from the family line… but Jesus can redeem anyone.
BTW, Cainan represents our common decent with the extinct order of multituberculata.
What’s that got to do with fraud though? Even if a pre-NT writer got something demonsrrably wrong that isn’t them committing fraud any more than I commit fraud when I write the wrong year down on a form every January.
1 Like
The reasons some make it some do not are interesting. But not the topic here. So far in this thread we have looked at how Enoch lived 365 years. No one has produced a reason from science this can happen. There was on speculative guess about God inserting a genetic bit into people or some such, but no serious discussion about it being possible with science. Some have weighed in declaring outright unbelief in any ages that were long. The issue remains, if he and others did live many centuries, could that have happened in this modern world? The answer of course is no. So something fundamental has changed.