Demon Possession in 2016

I raised hogs for many years. Call it reality. Especially when they have the aid of gravity.

By the way, the myth of healthy pigs injuring themselves and drowning when they try to swim is an old folk myth. Most can swim quite well. However, a hog experiencing a manic seizure which causes it to plunge into a body of water is another story. I’ve seen a number of animal species in states of mania, such as those caused by rabies, lead to plunges off ledges and even drowning through their own actions. Obviously, the Gospel account is not a Nature documentary about the normal habits of pigs. It describes very unusual circumstances. I have no idea why Beaglelady thinks that normal pig behavior would somehow settle the matter. It sounds like a another Argument from Personal Incredulity fallacy to go along with the many Argument from Negative Consequences fallacies in this thread.

In taking advantage of the same logic fallacy, I have decided to deny the Law of Gravity because it has led to bombs which have killed countless innocent people. It is a dangerous belief, so we had best abandon it. Of course, there is also the Ken Ham argument: If you don’t like something, declare there is no evidence and that’s that.

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Now that the Hitler card has been played, I’d say this exchange has hit bottom. No surprises there.

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I believe that it would be best for this topic to die. It seems that Thomas wishes to cause discontentment here. I can imagine him sitting in his home and laughing at the discussion.

You are correct. The Gospel account in my opinion is not myth; on the contrary, I believe it actually happened. If God can suspend natural laws, then Jesus can do what he did.

I believe you have a spiritual problem. May God help you.

Oh, I forget to answer this question:

Excellent question and one that has been debated for many centuries. Some theologians have said the hogs owners were Hellenized Jews in violation of Torah Law, and therefore in rebellion against God. (And thereby very eligible for losing that which they should never have had.) Others have said that, as the name might be thought to indicate, The Decapolis was a Greek area inhabited by Gentiles but that they raised hogs in order to sell the pork to Hellenized Jews who were in that state of defiance of the law. Others have written that even though this was an area inhabited by Gentiles, that habitation was an invasion of a land promised the Jews and therefore by raising hogs it compounded the defilement of the land.

Some commentators have even claimed that sending Legion into the pigs was an act of mercy because otherwise the demons would soon have harassed/oppressed other people in that area—or even re-inhabited the demoniac man just as Jesus talked about in Matthew 12:45 and Luke 11:26:

Then the spirit finds seven other spirits more evil than itself, and they all enter the person and live there. And so that person is worse off than before. That will be the experience of this evil generation.

Therefore, some have suggested that the demons were unaware of the fact that Jesus would grant their request but thereby destroy them in such a way that they couldn’t harass anyone ever again.

Under that interpretation, to complain about someone losing their living versus people being spared terrible oppression for years and years to come, the complaint brings to mind some of Jesus’ conversations with the rabbis who hassled Jesus because he was doing good deeds on the sabbath and therefore doing wrong, even though his good deeds meant the end of terrible sufferings.

So perhaps it comes down to whether one cares most about drowning hogs or suffering people.

Finally, let’s take a look at this logic:

OK. Why would anybody say it takes very little water to drown a human? (Ya know, like pediatricians warn parents of young children, and as physicians warn people who are prone to seizures and thereby known to drown in bathtubs.) After all, people like water. Also, people like to use water-based lotions to keep their skin moist in order to keep it healthy. People will even visit beaches and build swimming pools. People clearly love water if it’s available to them! And they can swim.

Yes, by that logical examination of the relationship of humans to water, I have successfully demonstrated that humans would not drown and could not drown in some body of water—whether a permanent geographic feature or a seasonal one—even if afflicted by mania and seizures! And surely that logical analysis settles the matter.

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It seems to be a good response as I see it.

You took my post completely out of context. I meant that some Christians believe that if a baby dies, it was because they were probably going to grow up to be very evil. I used the existence of Hitler to prove that this belief is both irrational and evil itself. I was NOT stating that Christians who believe in modern miracles are like Hitler. Please do not purposefully cut my posts to fit what you want them to say. That is very dishonest. Thank you.

Many African tribes actually cannot seem to assess reality. After all, they have Witch Doctors and believe evil spirits live in animals etc. How is this in line with reality? That has nothing to do with racism. There are White Westerners who believe crystals have healing properties… This is also not in line with reality.

Whenever a point or idea is brought forth that threatens your belief or threatens to cause you to think critically, you resort to ad hominem attacks and label me a troll or spiritually sick.

I resent your accusations and find them very un-Christian like.

Anyone unable to question their beliefs is unable to be taken seriously in any discussion regarding reality.

Yes, I could say the same about people here. I often see very sick individuals worshipping crystals or thinking they can cure cancer using reiki.

I do feel sorry for those in remote African tribes suffering from mental illness. They are in need of serious modern help but are instead covered in animal blood and sent into a raving frenzy.

Gotcha. It’s still best not to bring Hitler up, and you still have to work on the fact that when you disagree with other Christians, you are very quick to characterize their beliefs as idiotic or evil. We’ve been through this before.

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How are they un-Christian like? I am only telling the truth. I have faith. Where is yours? You continue to bring up evil people in history. Why is that? Do you admire them? I hope not.

Christy is 100% right.

Hello Eddie!

Do not count me in this college educated group. I am a BA in German Studies, History as well as Philosophy and MA in Biblical Studies; however, I take the Bible quite seriously.

You are right.

One point I was making was that many miraculous events during Jesus’ ministry can be subjected to a whole range of haphazard why-questions which are not easy to answer straightforwardly. I don’t believe such objections are a good basis for rejecting the eyewitness accounts of the Gospel writers. I just don’t see any consistency in your approach of rejecting this particular eyewitness account of Legion (and the huge collection of other biblical accounts that involve bad spirits), just because you find them hard to understand.

In general, I find two objectionable ways of reasoning in your replies (which others such as @Dr.Ex-YEC and @OldTimer have also pointed out) :

(1) “It is hard to understand why collection of events X happened in such a way. Therefore I don’t believe collection of events X happened in such a way.”
(2) “People did harmful things by incorrectly applying belief Y. Therefore belief Y must be false.”

Wouldn’t you agree that pretty much the same type of arguments are used by atheists AND YECs? Atheists fill in for event X = the biblical accounts, for belief Y they fill in Christianity. YECs fill in for collection of events X = deep time + evolution. In belief Y they fill in evolutionism.

So combining these two strategies (1) and (2), you have a magic formula for denying anything you don’t want to accept. Not very useful if your goal is to know the truth.

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