Definition of evolution and the distinction between micro/macro

[gbrooks9 (George Brooks, TE (E.volutionary T.heist OR P.rovidentialist))]

@aarceng

Microevolution : a relatively small number of changes in allele frequency. (This can include gains or losses in information*, functions or features.)

Macroevolution : a relatively large number of changes in allele frequency. (This can include gains or losses in information*, functions or features.)

@aarceng (& @Lynn_Munter and @T_aquaticus):

I neglected to point out two things… my life has been a bit hectic as of late…

1. I assume we can all accept adding the small bit that traditionally goes with Macro-Evolution:
   the part that conventionally accommodates the idea that Macro-Evolution refers to the kind of evolution that creates a new species (with the usual YEC proviso - - assuming that the emergence of a new species is even possible.

2. The more interesting fine point is one that was described to me by some sort of angst-ridden deist. He quoted Ernst Mayr, the grand old man of modern Evolutionary Science… and the father of the Genetic Definition of Species/Speciation:

“In his book [[Systematics and the Origin of Species (1942)]] he wrote that a species is not just a group of morphologically similar individuals, but a group that can breed only among themselves, excluding all others.”

"His theory of Peripatric Speciation (a more precise form of Allopatric Speciation which he advanced), based on his work on birds, is still considered a leading mode of speciation. . . "

“Mayr is sometimes credited with inventing modern philosophy of biology, particularly the part related to evolutionary biology, which he distinguished from physics due to its introduction of (natural) history into science.”

Ernst Mayr

My source said that Ernst Mayr can be quoted as saying that “speciation” is something that occurs at the MICRO-evolutionary level. I immediately perceived what it was Mayr was saying (assuming my source’s quote is correct) . . . but I could not get agreement!

THE POINT: The point of the paragraph is that my source insisted that Mayr says Speciation is a MICRO- event, not a macro event. But misunderstood why that is so! He was trying to say that MICRO-Evolution is where we find SPECIES! All I could think was “OYYYYY”

Speciation very rarely happens in a single instant … by means of a single generation. And when it does, it is usually something associated with plant replication issues.

Speciation is a process … sometimes a lengthy one… and sometimes an interrupted one, where two groups that were seemingly on their way to becoming two separate species encounter yet another change in circumstances… and the process of speciation is halted or reversed. It is at the conclusion of this extended period of “ALMOST A NEW SPECIES” that “speciation” is something experienced WITHIN a species. Semantically speaking, it would be definitionally impossible for speciation to be experienced (initially) any other way.

Once “speciation” actually occurs, “speciation” might be said to have also ended at the very same time.

@aarceng

And here is a posting I did long ago… where I show that the “Kinds” of Genesis are actually consistent with Mayr’s definitions!

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@gbrooks9

Even with Evolutionary Theory, populations cannot adapt to new conditions unless they are able to reproduce the next generation - - and allow for “adaptation” (as per micro-evolution). And this is where Genesis is quite specific… every Kind [defines and proves itself by being able to produce] the next generation!

Gen 1:24
And God said, “Let the land produce living creatures
according to their kinds : the livestock, the creatures
that move along the ground, and the wild animals,
each according to its kind.” And it was so. . .

YECs are too quick to think references to “Kinds” means a Kind can never change.
But what Genesis 1:24 clearly says is that a kind (a given population of creatures)
is to continue to reproduce itself…

There is nothing in the Bible about Kinds being immutable!

Link on Historical Background

Augustine believed Speciation was Possible

Centuries ago, Augustine of Hippo described how new species could appear. Think of how insightful this conclusion would be when nobody knew anything about genetics or chromosomes! : "In line with earlier Greek thought, the 4th-century bishop and theologian, Augustine of Hippo, wrote that the creation story in the Book of Genesis should not be read too literally. In his book De Genesi ad litteram (On the Literal Meaning of Genesis), he stated that in some cases new creatures may have come about…