Covid origin — it took 5 years

Im not medical person, however my thought was always that a higher payload meant a higher viral count for a given droplet of infected spit/snot whatever.

To me if getting vaccinated meant there was a measurable correlation between vax and lower count, because the bodies immune system was able to detect the virus sooner as a result of training (the idea of vax if memory serves), then for that reason vax was thr best way forward given the likely swamping of hospitals with sick patients in the short to.medium term.

Hospitals swamped with additional highly infectious sick patients is never a good thing…people who are already sick are highly vulnerable to additional sickness…take golden staph as point and example. Its one thing to go into hospital with a relatively minor ailment /or injury but another to come out with golden staph. A neighbour of ours when i was a child got this from hospital and suffered immensly for many months.

Also, given the experience with flu’s and common colds, why would scientists claim it wouldnt mutate quickly if at all? That isnt something i consider logical and the conclusions of the article are what i have always thought given colds and flu’s. Even thoughh theologivally, im a bit of a legalist, following rule books shouldnt impede on common sense when we have other direct evidences that shed light on a lack of experience.

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I remember thinking of the refrain from Judges, “Every man to his tent, O Israel!”, i.e. everyone abandon all others and see only to his own protection, and “Every man did what was right in his own eyes”.

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Sometimes the additional data known to intelligence agencies gets misinterpreted. Part of the overexpectation of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq was the failure to realize that production may be highly overreported when reporting high production helps keep you from getting executed.

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I almost hate to resurrect this thread, but came across this interview which is really quite interesting. One takeaway is that even though he comes to the conclusion that the origin of Covid was the wet market, that is more not less frightening than if it were from a lab, as that means the great big lab of Mother Nature is out there making other viral monsters without so much as laminar flow hood, and we are quite vulnerable

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Hanta, coccidioidomycosis, Ebola, HIV, avian flu, and many others are out there–some of which mutate to transfer among humans, as you say.

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Yeah, there’s nothing remotely reassuring about a wet market zoonotic origin for SARS-CoV-2. Nor does such an origin do a thing to reduce the risk from sloppy lab practices, which is real.

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Agree on both points. The scientific community as a whole was entirely correct for fearing a lab leak in the early days of the pandemic, and we shouldn’t grow numb to the dangers of potential lab leaks. Just as one example, the last known cases of smallpox were due to a lab leak which was part of the impetus to ban the growth of smallpox in labs.

While some of us have argued vociferously that the evidence points to a natural origin for this latest pandemic that should not be taken as a sign we are ignoring the dangers of viruses escaping labs, nor should it be taken as a sign of “defending our own”. Trust us, if it was a lab leak the scientific community would be leading the pack condemning it.

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Good reason to build a moon base – put all biolabs up there.

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More news:

Well first of all the website you linked all but gave my phone a virus so thanks for that. But it does link to the White House’s updated covid-19 page.

In this they present no new evidence and doubled down on old arguments from years ago. I copied their reasons here for convenience:

Covid 19 Origins Lab Leak

THE ORIGIN

“The Proximal Origin of SARS-CoV-2” publication — which was used repeatedly by public health officials and the media to discredit the lab leak theory — was prompted by Dr. Fauci to push the preferred narrative that COVID-19 originated naturally.

1.

The virus possesses a biological characteristic that is not found in nature.

2.

Data shows that all COVID-19 cases stem from a single introduction into humans. This runs contrary to previous pandemics where there were multiple spillover events.

3.

Wuhan is home to China’s foremost SARS research lab, which has a history of conducting gain-of-function research (gene altering and organism supercharging) at inadequate biosafety levels.

4.

Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV) researchers were sick with COVID-like symptoms in the fall of 2019, months before COVID-19 was discovered at the wet market.

5.

By nearly all measures of science, if there was evidence of a natural origin it would have already surfaced. But it hasn’t*.*

Even just to begin, I don’t even know how or why anyone would write number one. It’s probably a reference to the furin cleavage site stuff, but there are probably quadrillions of viruses in nature we don’t have sequenced or any information on. There are researchers who study animals that have large natural viral reservoirs like bats which can potentially put them at risk from contracting various zoonotic illnesses. But even then, we only have a tiny fraction of the information of all of nature’s collective viruses.

Furthermore, there were several other investigations and peer-reviewed studies on the wet market origin that they didn’t bother citing yet they pretended that such studies don’t exist claiming victory. Why do they ignore all of those studies and their epidemiological conclusions?

So again this new evidence is not really new at all. But really these were talking points like 5 years ago.

Taking over the White House with a bunch of anti-science propagandists and then changing the White House web pages is not really how science works. But you do you @03Cobra.

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That is funny!

Another false claim about the source of a virus!

why should anyone expect anything less when conspiracy theories are being thrown around. These are great bandwagons for hackers to exploit “IT” idiots.

Well I guess real estate developer reality TV stars are entitled to their opinion.

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Yes, the President says a lot of crazy things.

But even a blind hog finds an acorn every now and then.

What a ridiculous list.

  1. is either meaningless or wrong. What feature are they talking about?
  2. is baffling. How many other pandemics have we actually tracked genetically enough to know how many spillover events were involved? We certainly know of other major epidemics that started with a single human case, e.g. the 2014 West Africa Ebola outbreak.
  3. has always been the only reason to take the possibility of a lab origin seriously. Either the outbreak starting in a city with a major coronavirus lab is a coincidence or the clustering of early cases around the wet market is a coincidence. Stating only the first of the two possible coincidences doesn’t mean the other one goes away.
  4. Millions, maybe billions, of people are sick with COVID-like symptoms every year. Since the molecular dating of the origin of the outbreak places the origin after those cases, you can only consider this evidence for a lab origin by ignoring the actual data.
  5. is a nonsensical assertion. After all these years we haven’t demonstrated the natural reservoir of Ebola; by this argument, Ebola outbreaks must come from lab leaks, too.
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The only thing this confirms is that you’ll believe anything coming from the White House.

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Im sorry but you are going to have to support that with referencing because that is not what ive seen in referencing ive found. I recall having seen those kinds of claims from some rather dubious sources.

Whilst i made fun of your nearly getting a virus on your phone, i do agree wholeheartedly with this.