Could the Universe of Genesis 1 merely be Eden?

All scripture is God breathed…1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. God saw ALL that He had made, and behold, it was very good… Unless the universe is not part of the ‘all’ which means God didn’t create the universe?

I love this… verses we can all agree on!!

That we can! :slight_smile:

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We’re not talking about “all” we’re talking about shamayim and what that word means as used in Genesis.

LOL…Dude, you cannot make a broader statement than that; that covers everything. ‘All’ would have to be included, I mean if you don’t want to acknowledge that the ‘heaven and the highest (2), heaven and the highest heavens’ includes the universe, then fine. I don’t know what else there is to say.

This remind me of the Universalists who argue that the ancient Greek word for eternal “ainonion” is not really eternal as we know eternal, because the Greeks had no word for eternity therefore hell is not eternal. :slight_smile:

(1-2)You seem to be claiming to be a better scholar of the Bible than Augustine. Perhaps I misunderstand, though.

(3) Actually, you did not quote what God said in Genesis 1:1. Here’s what He really said:



Just because I don’t agree with everything Augustine wrote does not mean I am a better scholar than Augustine. As far as the quote. I believe I did, Genesis 1:1 “In the beginning God created the heaven(s) and the earth.” :slight_smile:

Are you saying that Ezekiel 28 is less worthy of being taken literally than Genesis is, just because it’s in the middle of the Bible instead of the first page people open to? It seems a pretty straightforward account to me, and we can learn a lot more about conditions in the Garden from it!

  1. Adam and/or Eve were adorned with all kinds of jewels set in gold by God from the day he created them

  2. The garden of Eden was on a mountain and there were fiery stones (lava?)

  3. Adam and/or Eve were ordained by God as guardian cherubs

  4. When they were thrown out it was a spectacle before kings — this is even more evidence that Adam and Eve were not the first humans

  5. Adam and/or Eve died by the fire God made and were reduced to ashes in the sight of all who were watching.

I didn’t know any of these aspects of the story of creation until I read Ezekiel 28 just now thanks to this discussion! Do the people making YEC dioramas just never read this far into their Bibles? What’s going on here?

The “all” refers to what has just been recorded as being created.

Where in Genesis 1 does it say anything that would include creating the entire universe? Remember the stars were created in the sky.

I always like to see when people who insist on a literal reading of Genesis add what they already know to what they read.

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I am impressed with you Hebrew.

Nope. You already started with a false premise

the whole, all
NASB Translation
all (4045), all for every (2), all his and every (1), all his everything (1), all its the entire (1), all the and every (1), all the of every (1), all the everywhere (1), all the throughout (1), all your concerning everything (1), all your to every

God looked at (1st qualifier) ‘all’ (2nd qualifier) ‘he had made’

In the beginning God CREATED (made) the heavens and the earth.

As for (Genesis 1:14) "English Standard Version
And God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the heaven(S) to separate the day from the night…

You need a more accurate biblical translation; albeit still upset that the ESV refuses to use the word ‘slave’ rather than ‘servant’, since I am a firm believer in ‘Lordship salvation’ :frowning:

That hardly means that everything was made by God, grammatically. Just that everything he made, he was looking at.

Hi Wookin,

Were you aware that the greatest scholar in the history of the church was an African? Augustine was a Berber from Algeria who was marvelously gifted of God to instruct and lead the church.

So you think Augustine was a great scholar, but he made a mistake in the exegesis of Genesis 1-2 that you disagree with. Do you think that Augustine made that mistake for the following reasons?

  1. He drew his conclusions about Genesis because he wanted influential people to like him.
  2. He was delusional.
  3. He was twisting and contorting Scripture to fit a preconceived idea

The reason I ask is that when evolutionary creationists agree with Augustine that Genesis 1-2 should not be interpreted literally, you say this about them:

Also, you are still not quoting Genesis 1:1, which was written in Hebrew. You seem unaware that difficulties can arise in translating and understanding “what’s happening” in a literature from a very different time and culture from ours.

The doctrine of sola scriptura states that Scripture provides our only written guidance for practicing Christian faith. (I won’t get into the role of the Holy Spirit in guiding God’s people–that would at a minimum require another thread.) Sola scriptura does not tell us that Genesis 1-2 is a literal history and Ezekiel 28 is figurative, or vice versa. Understanding that Genesis 1-2 teaches us that God created everything, and that He has commissioned humanity to be the agents of His reign over the earth, can be understood by anyone and everyone. Understanding whether it’s literal or figurative, on the other hand, requires more than a Hebrew-English lexicon; it requires a deep understanding of the Hebrew language and culture to which God revealed this passage.

So maybe we can agree to disagree about how to interpret Genesis 1-2 without saying nasty things about one another’s motives…What do you say, brother Wookin?


Ok, what? Do tell!

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And so this would include the Stars for sure, right?
… followed by our particular star, the Sun.

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@Wookin_Panub I’m not sure if you’re aware but modern Hebraists argue that a translation of Genesis 1:1 as describing the absolute beginnings of the universe is incoherent.

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