Cosmogony 101, Lab Assignment: Create A Physical Universe

What you say about eternity is what my bones tell me too. But I have to forgive those not convinced by that sort of testimony of course.

But nothing new, ever? Here my bones do not concur.

It’s the testimony of logic @MarkD. If anything is new then everything is, from forever. You’re new. I’m new. We’ve never been before. Like everyone else from eternity. We’re mesoscopic. Between relativity and quanta. We’re not wired for eternity or the evanescent, infinity or the infinitesimal; we’re wired for story born meaning. In a story with no beginning. No end. No story. There is no God story whether He instantiates all other self telling stories or not.

…based on some presuppositions which, while maybe ‘rational’, are not necessarily true.

Well at least in trivial ways there is newness. But perhaps nothing is completely new, devoid of any connection to the past. You and I had parents and the singularity that became a universe owes some debt to something we cannot imagine which pre-existed it. That is just as true if it was God as if it were the unfolding of a multiverse. So I prefer to say it was pre-existing conditions and leave it at that. Nothing ever came from a true nothing because there has never been any such thing IMO.

@Klax cannot get his head around the distinct possibility that time had a true beginning (and that relativistic physics actually demonstrates), and not infinite beginnings from eternity. Sure, the latter is a rational thought (and that’s all it is), but it is not necessarily true.

I like the idea that quantum mechanics might be hinting at, that the fundamental reality of the universe is information. The mind of God (and that’s not nothing) fits that bill quite nicely,.

Surfing on “the fundamental reality of the universe is information”, I came up with this quote from someone (a science reporter) who has trouble with the idea:

Part of me would love to believe that consciousness is not an accidental by-product of the physical realm but is in some sense the primary purpose of reality. Without us to ponder it, the universe makes no sense; worse, it’s boring.
Scientific American opinion blog

Of course, he is not seeing how well that fits into a Christian worldview… mine, anyway. (Recall why God created the universe.)

A creature of this physical universe can think up justifications for creating a universe just like the one he inhabits. Is this supposed to be a surprise? Does such a creature really have any realistic comprehension of any other possibilities? Are these justifications supposed to reveal why things are the way they are? Seriously?

I think of the book of Job, and I also imagine how someone 2000 years ago might come up with such justifications according to the way he thinks the universe is like.

If you would really explain why things are the way they are, then you would start with the reasons WHY create a physical universe at all? What purpose is this creation supposed to accomplish anyway? Then you would show how this purpose requires certain features.

It was the latter, whether it were the former or not. Existence is uncaused apart from by some eternal constant ineffable principle. Neither physics nor God explains it. The absurdity of existence is primary, the absurdity of God as its ground is secondary. So there is hope : )

Klax    The only thing that matters is faith expressed in love.

What was that faith in, exactly?

Your declarations do not make it so, sorry. That is reminiscent of the governor’s relationship to the virus:

It’s got nothing to do with me. It’s how reality works. Rationally.

Sure, you think so when you make rational, but untrue, presuppositions. That’s all about you.

As opposed to irrational true ones.

A cute retort doesn’t change any facts.

There’s nothing irrational about not presupposing God impotent to intervene providentially. In fact… :slightly_smiling_face:

Who are you quoting?

Dale told me that recently so probably himself.

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I thought, mistakenly, you might remember, unless that’s a rhetorical question or a disingenuous one.

I have used this type of thought experiment a few times myself, but in a slightly different way.

Imagine that there is junior high school student from a species of super-advanced aliens. As part of an experiment in science class, the student is instructed to construct a universe that would naturally produce multicolored stellar nebulae, but no life. The student nailed the multi-colored nebulae, but barely failed to meet the second criteria when life emerged on one tiny planet among trillions and trillions of planets. The student got a B+. That universe is our universe.

You know this how? That we are the only life bearing planet in multiple galaxies. How?

It is just a dreamt up scenario.

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Do you think the teacher was being generous or hardnosed? Maybe other races have grade inflation too.

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“Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone.” -Colossians 4:6

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