Ironically, the immediate effect of an uncaused cause will appear to come from nothing.
But yes, I agree with what you said, I particularly like how Augustine said it here:
For thou [God] didst make heaven and earth, not out of any material, since there was no material, but out of thyself, yea, and not out of thyself as one thing made of another, but out of thyself as thy Word, co-eternal with thee and by whom thou didst make all things.
So many ways to build a God box. I still favor the view that God is in everything but more than the sum of the parts. Also I reject that God just always was a finished product since forever and then just got busy one day (well, six of them) and whipped up the cosmos. I think that trivializes both His role and the scope of the task. I prefer to imagine -since that is all any of us can do- that the origin of the cosmos tracks with God’s becoming because, while He doesn’t need a higher level creator, He must have a back story and I think He deserves some credit for evolving and improving. Otherwise his specialness is more like that of gem or sunset rather than like that of a subject. Of course I have serious worries that even placing God in the “subject box” is still a diminishment which just reflects our limited powers of imagination.
Thanks for sharing the article, it was a good read. Appreciate that it was an article from 11 years ago, but a real shame that it didn’t include any footnotes to Tom’s writings. It would have been nice to follow up on Carroll’s comments and do some extra digging.
Absolutely, MarkD. However, I would suggest that building a God box is inevitable and, in fact, a necessary task for theologians who believe God has provided a revelation of Godself in some way. For a vast number of Christian theologians, it is through this process of discernment that we can determine what God has said and the limits of our knowledge about God. In that sense, the goal of a Christian is only ever to put God inside the box he has already made for himself as a result of his revelation. However, humility and a recognition of our own limited perspectives should lead them to build a box with fuzzy edges.
But I think this box-building goes beyond the formally religious too. I agree with RC Sproul and others that we should all think of ourselves as theologians whenever we talk about God, regardless of whether we believe in God’s existence or not. In that sense, building a God box happens every time we have a conversation about God. Consider some of the phrases from your previous post:
I’d say that, even in expressing opinions and preferences about how we like to conceptualize God, we are building a box for God to inhabit. Again, I don’t think this is a bad thing, as I said above, I think it is unavoidable. Instead, I’d suggest that rather than asking whether one should or shouldn’t place God in a box, I’d prefer to ask the question what kind of box are we building for God inhabiting? For example:
These questions help move the conversation away from whether building a God box is good or bad towards questions of how flexible and accurate our conception of God might be. [Edit:] Perhaps, that was the point you were making all along, in which case, thanks for helping me crystallise my thoughts as I think out loud.
I think that is right. But I confess I am only tentatively exploring the contours of what may be a/the box in the dark. I’m not convinced of anything I am trying out as I am thinking out loud too but I am happy to have company in doing so and appreciate you sharing your impressions too.
Re the Caroll statement and questions concerning created out of nothing to give something, it seems to me that “In the beginning” says it all. Isn’t that what Physics is saying when creation came from a point of singularity that contained all the energy necessary. God was the source. This energy made the light and mass.
LEE
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