I think the lesson from Jesus’ scathing denunciation of the Pharisees, who apparently were denying their parents some support - claiming to have given that support to God instead - I think that lesson is directly applicable here. Even beyond family or parents, though. I think whenever another person is near; their presence has the highest claim on my attentions, and any pretension I have toward “personal devotion” or “prayer” that would cause me to deny interaction with that person is just like the Pharisees trying to “piously” redirect their resources away from where they were needed. We can always make time for personal devotion and quiet prayer. Especially now. It’s our TV and device time that we can easily bite into if we find ourselves short on devotional time.
I’ve thought this for a while, and I’ve noted that Macdonald also feels strongly the same.
You seem to misunderstand me all the time. I know the reasoning for closing the churches. It has little to do with understanding theology. It boils down to practicalities. Ignoring the isolationing might be considered testing God. It can be (and has been) argued that Historically God has not intervened in Plagues or other Global life threatening (Wars etc). It can also be argued that God does not single out the church for special attention. And so on, and so on (Everything that has been argued here et al) But
Never before has the sanctity of the church service been questioned. Never before has the Eucharist (Mass, Communion) been cancelled because of the threat of disease, contamination, or cross infection. There is no precedent. There is contradiction in Scripture, because it is not specific to the situation. It was a judgement call And the Church leaders came down on caution and human wisdom instead of Faith in God’s protection. I would be almost certain that the decision was not taken lightly or unanimously. I am equally certain that there will those who agree with me and have both the authority and faith to overrule it on an individual basis.
I am not a minister, or church leader, I m only a Lay Preacher. If a congregation had asked me to lead worship I would have done so. When the initial decision was made by my own church I was told that I could still lead a service, but that was probably cancelled when the Governing body ruled otherwise, and I did not attempt it, because I am under the authority of both the Church Elders and the Synod. So basically this is all theoretical. It is my faith and opinion, nothing more.
Richard, I wasn’t thinking about the possible endangerment of people who depended on you. We’ve covered that and in the end it came out that it was not up to you to do that.
I was responding only to this: “But then again, I believe in Him.” Of course you believe in Him. So does Martin and most everyone on this site with a few exceptions. But you assume that near unanimous opposition is an indication that your belief is stronger?
I’ll risk giving offense in saying I think you have too much pride in your own opinion.*
*I do recognize the irony coming from me.
Klax
(The only thing that matters is faith expressed in love.)
44
What, if God exists, He intervenes in ways that deny He does? Same as YEC?
Oh and you are going to take it upon yourself to dictate what is under the control of God and what isn’t?
I would suggest this may be a choice between gathering in church in order to offer yourselves up to God that He may take you if He so chooses, and not gathering in church in order to keep from endangering other people by spreading this virus. Of course if you gather in the church and stay there (no contact with any other people) until the danger passes then perhaps you could do both at the same time.
Because I believe different than the obvious majority?
I have been arguing God and Evolution long before BioLogos turned up… So what’s new?
I am just stating my view, and I am certainly not unique (Maybe on this forum). Being in the minority is very Scriptural!
If I had been given the opportunity to “Live” my belief I would have done so. (And been subject to the criticism of people like you).
So I have no problems in admitting (Proclaiming?) my beliefs. Not to do so would contradict all that I believe. I am complying to the will of the church but reserve the right to question, or disagree with her.
This all makes me think of the Great Lisbon Earthquake, which occurred during mass on All Saint’s Day, killing about 70,000. I understand it had a major impact on religion in the area, beyond the destruction of most of the churches as it is difficult to see the goodness of God in the midst of such suffering, inflicting death on the most faithful. https://www.earthmagazine.org/article/benchmarks-november-1-1755-earthquake-destroys-lisbon
They took precautions, but singing is inherently projecting your own mouth air into the public air with more force than talking. Really sad.
God did not protect their choir practice, even though they were singing to him. We all must do our part to protect others. That is why God commanded us to love our neighbors. and this is what loving them looks like right now.
Playing off my post #10, a story from the NY Times on the outbreak in Albany, Georgia:
This is not a case of “the media” deriding churches. It is coming from within communities. Listen to this chilling quote from the story:
The warnings drove a wedge between people in Albany, said the Rev. Daniel Simmons, the senior pastor of Albany’s Mt. Zion Baptist Church … The city’s churches, he said, began to feel unfairly singled out. “That is the focus: the church, the church,” he said. “It has done damage because there is stigma. There is almost this wall of hostility that has been raised between certain parts of the community and the church.”
Klax
(The only thing that matters is faith expressed in love.)
54
We’ve already been down this road once before. And like then, I’m shutting this down. I’m not giving the Forum platform for people to defend the idea that God will prevent a virus from spreading while they worship. Many of the topics we discuss here have only very derivative consequences on the health and well-being of people. This one is direct. Granted neither side can prove their case with 100% certainty, but what are the consequences for each side being wrong?
, a story from the NY Times on the outbreak in Albany, Georgia: