Can you clarify? Thanks.
Are you saying we can only allow ourselves the amount of doubt that the Bible prescribes?
That doesn’t make sense to me. Would we accept a Muslim or Hindu’s response to us that they can only doubt as much as their holy book recommends?
How can we say we are being intellectually clear if we use this argument? It sounds like a special pleading?
Thanks
Yeah, but it’s time for summer re-runs. And it sure beats the “Change and time are opposite worldviews” rubbish we were treated to a long time ago.
A patient went to their oncologist and asked them how to deal with their cancer. The oncologist replied, “You need to stop having cancer because you aren’t allowed to have cancer”.
A patient went to their psychologist and them them how to deal with their depression. The psychologist replied, “You need to stop being depressed because you aren’t allowed to be depressed”.
Are these professionals being helpful?
I love that hymn, but that stanza is not about doubt – it is about sin, willful or reckless, and I identify with it. Christians should recognize that their hearts are sealed with the Surety.
All these strenuous and repeated (speaking of repetition 
) objections seem to have blinders on. I have said and more than once that not all doubt is wrong.
Carefully defining doubt is a need. Job has already been cited as an important example. Habakkuk challenges God when His ways seem to contradict His standards, and challenges the answer to his first question. “I believe; help my unbelief” seems to be cited positively. But there are also passages such as James 1:6-8 that are critical of doubting. The key aspect seems to be the attitude behind the doubt. Attitude is of course quite difficult to judge; even in person it may not be obvious, and the often brief sketches in Scripture often leave more to be inferred. Do not doubt what you have good cause to trust, but do not fear asking when you are uncertain, might get at the distinction. The “doubter” of James 1 seems to be one who is merely hoping to get something out of God, if He exists, rather than one who is seriously pursuing the question.
Thank you. Those are important distinctions.
The ingenuous and hopeful in God should find accounts of God’s providence encouraging, just like the ones in Acts and elsewhere. If that seems onerous and accusatory, or even noxious, Mark, pointing a finger has three pointing back.
If anyone is despairing, follow the example and prayer of Keller’s parishioner… and be prepared to humbly wait.
“The Lord’s servant must not quarrel, but must be gentle to everyone, able to teach, and patient, instructing his opponents with gentleness. Perhaps God will grant them repentance leading them to the knowledge of the truth. Then they may come to their senses and escape the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will.”
How odd and unsurprising that knowledgeable of the truth now means the truth of being an individual self.
I honestly sincerely don’t know where to begin with your skepticism.
Is this how you would characterize our past dialogue?
Huh? Not sure what that means. Actually, I’m sure I don’t know.
It’s a reference Randy may pick up on… I’ll first give him a chance to respond.
I’m not sure exactly either. Is that a reference to solipsism and being a solipsist?
That’s how I would characterize the sentiment that Christians should not doubt.
Sentiments are feelings. Doubting is a choice. Doubting is not always wrong.
In my experience, that’s like telling someone depression is a choice so all they need to do is just stop being depressed. Problem fixed. If their depression doesn’t go away, then it’s their fault for choosing to be depressed.
I am sorry. I do not understand.
Thank you in advance.
Your brother in Christ
One of my favourite verses from my favourite Pauline letter. I would suggest that these verses are more about the character of the person doing the teaching than the one doing the listening. Not e that gentleness (the forgotten fruit of the Spirit as someone once said) is mentioned twice.
And for good reason, the one who is gentle with opponents trusts in God to change hearts and minds. in contrast, the one who trusts in the force of their words actually doubts God’s ability in that regard.
Depression is a feeling, not a choice. It can occur as a result of, because of doubt, and so can fear, which of course is also a feeling. Please make those distinctions – apparently very few do.
Emotions can be dealt with (but not necessarily easily – it can take hard work and discipline) by focusing the attention (a choice) on the correct things and correct self-talk. (And I don’t have it nailed!)
[Blessed is the one who]…speaks truth IN his heart.
Psalm 15:2
I do respect the distinctions your are trying to draw and hear you when you say not all doubts are bad. A point you have emphasised at several points.
And yet, when I deconstructed my YEC views I found myself wrestling with some pretty big, dark, and scary doubts about God, his character, and his existence. The doubts had an intellectual component, for sure, but they felt much more visceral than that. They were much more like something I felt in my bones, than considered with my mind. In fact, thinking about them only made them worse. They certainly did not feel like a choice made by me, if anything they felt like something happening to me.
Heymike’s reply to Randy:
As somebody who has known Randy a long time (not in person, but at least through his long-time interactions in this forum) I want to jump in as a bit of a cheerleader here for Randy - no doubt embarassing him terribly. But here goes.
In terms of people whom I wish to emulate in my own Christian walk - there are some right here in this forum, and Randy is prominent among those. I’m not saying he’s unique in that regard. But my rock-solid reason for holding him in this esteem is because I’ve observed how he interacts with others here, showing a loving patience with others that literally is unique to him; and I’ve heard enough about him and how he chooses to live his own life, that I don’t even need to see any list of what all specific doctrines he accepts or doubts, insists on, or rejects. It’s already written right there in his life. So whatever skepticism he feels about some dogma or doctrine (even super important things shaking him to his core - perhaps crying out to God ‘are you even there?’ - or feeling forsaken as Jesus himself did on the cross) while I don’t wish any such suffering of nagging doubts on him, I nonetheless still see him loving on Christ, wanting to follow and learn from Christ, and clinging to that through it all. So even though it may be naive of me (because if Randy says he’s struggling, then I’ll take him at his word - I know he isn’t perfect) I nonetheless have zero worry about him and his status before God. When somebody is in relationship with Christ, any skepticism or doubts that assail them are in loving hands far above any pay grade any of us will ever approach here. Skepticism (even against important and true things) does not equal unfaithfulness. I would rather have one of Randy (somebody, who even if he isn’t sure about all the doctrinal stuff that others here so badly need him to affirm by word), nevertheless lives in obedient discipleship - I’d rather have one of him over a thousand of those who check all the right boxes, believe and publicly affirm all the correct doctrines, and then (like the disobedient son who said ‘yes’ to the Father) - they don’t have the aroma of Christ to others around them, and don’t aspire to love even their enemies as Christ did.
When I encounter people with lovingly soft hearts for others - I sit up and pay attention, because I know I’m learning something of - or even from Christ. Randy is a giant in that regard.
“Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone.” -Colossians 4:6
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