Challenge: spot the intelligent design

None of them.

See my previous post; I look for evidence of independence from natural causation, and biological organisms are not independent of natural causation.

It’s a biological organism, so it’s not independent of natural causation. See here.

I actually remember having seen a watch evolve… Check out this YouTube video ;)…

And yes, the end results in that video were not “designed” in the human sense of the word, but the boundary conditions that allowed this clock to evolve were designed. So here we have intelligent design working through gradual processes such as evolution. We don’t need to get stuck on trying to proof that things are irreducibly complex to believe in a Creator.

hey casper.

no realy. the video start with a pendulum that can move. its need about 3-4 part for starting point. so even the starting point is irreducible complex.

now- what if you will find a self replicating watch in other planet? do you will conclude that this watch was design or evolve?

here is the problem- you believe that its true. you dont know its actually true. and we have evidence that contradict this belief.

according to this article the ttss system share some parts with the flagellum. the problem is that it doesnt prove it can evolve. why? because we can find the same parts in systems like car and airplane. they both share parts like wheels, feul tank and so on. but there is no step wise way from a car into an airplane. so there is not step wise from the ttss to the flagellum.

I already did.

In what sense? If you agree with that you should have no problem with “Darwinian” evolution.

We know it’s actually true.

Intermediaries have been found. And the car/airplane example actually shows how we can reliably deduce that the modern airplane is a technological evolution of the modern car.

Well… I certainly didn’t see THAT one coming!

Right here. I’m sorry if that’s unclear.

I’m sorry that it’s unclear to you; when I say they weren’t designed, that means they were the result of natural processes. These structures are the product of lava cooling (specifically basalt). These structures were not designed. It’s an entirely natural process. Were you unaware of how basalt lava cools and forms these structures?

if you know that its mena that you have a proof. so what is your proof that the nature evolve?

not realy. the jump from a car into an airplane isnt small but large. you cant move from a car engine to an airplane one by addin one part each time. so this show us that the evolution its impossible.

@Jonathan_Burke

So what was the point of the OP? What were you trying to prove?

That something that LOOKS designed is frequently NOT designed?

Can you clarify what you mean by “evidence of independence from natural causation”? How do you keep it from turning into a god-of-the-gaps mentality? Thanks!

@Melpomene_Jones if you will permit me to join this discussion, even if only briefly, when I am discussing ID concepts outside of BioLogos blogs, I simply allow a person’s preferences to guide our discussion about how he sees God’s role in evolution.

Suppose he or she says that one of the key hurdles was the creation of a flagellum. I personally might think that biological science is well within a reasonable solution for a non-divine intervention in the creation of flagellum. So I might say that I am more optimistic than my discussion partner about whether God had to get involved in such a thing.

But since I DO AGREE that God is in the background the whole time, making human life arrive on the scene at the right time and in the right forms … I feel honor-bound to avoid the QUIBBLE as to how much of God’s work can be tolerated.

Ironically, if we believe God uses 100% natural laws … this is a FULL DIVINE EMBRACE, is it not?

So if someone says, “and God created the Rainbow in the sky” . . . who am I to say God’s embrace cannot accommodate such a thought?

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@Jonathan_Burke

To say that crystals are not designed by God is ridiculous.

Everyone knows that water is necessary for life and one of the unique things about water is that it has a six-sided crystalline structure. If water as a solid, that is ice, were not lighter than water as a liquid, then many streams and the life that is in them would die and much standing water would freeze clear through and life in them would die.

Why is ice lighter than water? Because God designed H2O to be crystalline in structure.

Carbon, another important element for the existence of life, is also crystalline, so that coal, graphite, and diamonds are all pure carbon.

Life depends on a huge number of circumstances that must all be perfectly in sync. This cannot and is not the product of random chance. The crystalline structure of water is one of them and God created them all, because God is the Source and the Logos of All.

God is the God of the Facts, not the God of the Gaps.