Can science provide evidence for supernatural agency?

[beaglelady]

@mitchellmckain

Jesus did not continue with His physical life

There was both continuity and discontinuity, according to the Bible.

[T_aquaticus]

@Dale

On the other hand, I don’t think you can prove that it wasn’t.

And that’s why the Kalam argument ultimately fails, in my estimation. At its heart there his a shift in the burden of proof.

[Dale (evolutionary providentialist)]

There are other evidences that lead me to believe that big bang cosmology is one more thing among many that points to the Creator, however.

[Klax (The only thing that matters is faith expressed in love.)]

@T_aquaticus

And that’s why the Kalam argument ultimately fails, in my estimation. At its heart there his a shift in the burden of proof.

WLC’s KCA is utterly pathetic. Eternity is the greatest single fact. It completely ignores it.

[Dale (evolutionary providentialist)]

God is eternal. This universe had a beginning, along with time. Alternate universes and other timelines are just speculation.

The spiritual realm is another matter – we have objective evidence for God’s cool providential interventions into his children’s lives. That kind of implies a person ought to want to be one. Why wouldn’t you?!

[T_aquaticus]

@Dale

This universe had a beginning, along with time.

Clouds have a beginning, yet they have natural causes. We don’t know if time started with our universe or if time existed prior to our universe.

[Dale (evolutionary providentialist)]

If you’ll check, math and physics prove that time had a beginning. The relativistic equation is pretty simple.

[T_aquaticus]

@Dale

If you’ll check, math and physics prove that time had a beginning.

Perhaps you could point me to the evidence for time beginning with our universe?

[Dale (evolutionary providentialist)]

I can find the equation for you easily enough. @Klax could quote it for you, I’m pretty sure.

[T_aquaticus]

@Dale

I can find the equation for you easily enough.

Equations aren’t evidence. I can write an equation where gravity is a repulsive force, but that doesn’t make the equation evidence for repulsive gravity.

[Dale (evolutionary providentialist)]

The answer is we can’t know, according to this by Ethan Siegel (I think Hawking would have concurred):

Did Time Have A Beginning?

[Dale (evolutionary providentialist)]

I choose to believe the Bible, along with some other evidence validating it – there was a created beginning. I pretty much can’t not.

[T_aquaticus]

@Dale

along with some other evidence validating it

LIKE WHAT???

[Dale (evolutionary providentialist)]

GOD’S PROVIDENTIAL INTERVENTIONS INTO THE LIVES OF HIS CHILDREN. XD  

[T_aquaticus]

@Dale

GOD’S PROVIDENTIAL INTERVENTIONS INTO THE LIVES OF HIS CHILDREN.

Never mind. I thought we were still on universe stuff.

[MarkE]

@T_aquaticus

@Dale

This universe had a beginning, along with time.

Clouds have a beginning, yet they have natural causes. We don’t know if time started with our universe or if time existed prior to our universe.

“In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.” (Genesis 1:1)

Whether or not this included the creation of time, space, matter or energy, would you agree it describes an “unnatural” cause or some sort?

[T_aquaticus]

@MarkE

Whether or not this included the creation of time, space, matter or energy, would you agree it describes an “unnatural” cause or some sort?

That’s the claim. I am more interested in the evidence.

[Dale (evolutionary providentialist)]

There was a beginning event to ‘nature’ as we know it. We have evidence. Without space, time, material (including energy) there is no ‘nature’. So what ‘preceded’ the beginning of time and caused it was ‘unnatural’ or ‘supernatural’.

[T_aquaticus]

@Dale

There was a beginning event to ‘nature’ as we know it. We have evidence. Without space, time, material (including energy) there is no ‘nature’. So what ‘preceded’ the beginning of time was ‘unnatural’ or ‘supernatural’.

The conclusion does not follow from the premises.

[Dale (evolutionary providentialist)]

What is ‘nature’? Nature had a beginning.