Minor technicality, IMO. Whats makes us human is the Self which originates in the Executive Function regions, “especially in the Bodmann area 10”. With the appearance of a Self, come the human strategies to get through “the future”. The “image of God” that some humans make such a big deal about? A divine gift, along with the capacity to kill one’s Self.
As a rule I don’t engage in Antoine Suarez’ thread. , but I did briefly quite some time ago. About that time, a rough estimate for when, in the past, pre-humans “got the image of God”. Can’t remember exactly, but I think Atoine conjectured that it was about 40,000 years ago [Don’t quote me; I may have the years wrong.] For more, ask Antoine or some regular participant in that thread for info on Antoine’s guess and rationale for it.
After the beginning of agriculture around 10,000 years ago. The Bible suggests around 6,000 years ago. So somewhere in that time period. Much before that would make them insignificant since there were no great changes in the way our ancestors lived for millions of years… except for the slow evolutionary changes as we adapted to the use of language and our role as the supreme long distance running hunters.
Yup. That puts them after the Neanderthals and Denisovans had disappeared as distinct groups.
If you are going to place them at an earlier time when you can see no discernable impact on the way people lived then you might as well treat them as nothing but metaphors. I prefer to see the story as historical but not literal, for this maximizes the meaningfulness of the story. But putting them at an earlier time does even more to diminish the meaningfulness of the story by reqiring them to have no discernable impact on the way people lived. Thus I would rank my preference of the possibilities in this order:
Adam and Eve historical 6000-10000 ya, but the story is told with considerable symbolism.
Adam and Eve are metaphors and the story is just to promote a few theological ideas.
Adam and Eve historical and lived more than 15,000 ya.
The earliest human writing is from 5,500 ya. That is the extent of human history. To put an historical Adam and Eve back in time three or more times that span of time makes them so insignificant they might as well be figments of our imagination.
Seriously? no great changes in the way our ancestors lived for millions of years except for language and long-distance running? You need to go to a natural history museum.
I just love the way people answer the question or idea that they want to rather than the one that is posed. Here is a chance to fling wide the uses and interpretations of Scripture and what do we get? Evolution and scientific dogma. It would be nice to see something fresh and original. But, sadly, it probably won’t come from me.
But here is a thought. Scripture is about Faith and God, not science. So the sooner we stop looking for conflicts between Scripture and science, the quicker we will establish the use and benefits of scripture.
Richard
Klax
(The only thing that matters is faith expressed in love.)
53
How can there be anything fresh and original in the study of believing an 80% ancient Jewish library with a 20% radical Jewish extrapolation from it? Except what will come from psychology and philosophy?
So the human race has been static for a couple of millennia, no new thoughts, new ideas, insights?
Tell me. When did Jesus come into His Kingdom? Who was on His right and left side?
Or maybe, What did the beasts of Daniel represent? Which empires?
There are still things that are by no means agreed or certain. There is still room for insight and originality. As we increase in knowledge so does our ability to extrapolate and connect. and then produce something new or original. When we stop growing we die.
Richard
Klax
(The only thing that matters is faith expressed in love.)
55
And why the sea is boiling hot and whether pigs have wings.
In the Transfiguration.
The Father is on His left. His followers on His right.
Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, Rome.
Actually, some male spiders do commit suicide after copulating with a female (see attached link to a scientific journal article). The key point here, though, is that this behaviour can be favoured by natural selection because it increases the male’s fitness (number of progeny). And, of course, no one thinks the spider needs a conscious awareness of “self” to act suicidally. https://www.science.org/doi/abs/10.1126/science.271.5245.70
My cursory reading of the article that you link to actually shows that the particular spiders that the article focuses on do and do not commit suicide after copulation, given the multiple meanings of the word “suicide” that I read in Collins Dictionary, to wit:
suicide in British English
the act or an instance of killing oneself intentionally
the self-inflicted ruin of one’s own prospects [as in: “a merger would be financial suicide”]
a person who kills himself or herself intentionally
(modifier) (of an action) undertaken or (of a person) undertaking an action in the knowledge that it will result in the death of the person performing it in order that maximum damage may be inflicted on an enemy [as in “a suicide attack”, “suicide bomber”]
Word origin: 17th century: from New Latin suīcīdium, from Latin suī (of oneself) + -cīdium, from caedere (to kill).
Perhaps you’d like to share your source with the authors of my previous source and make your case to them. I’m sure that they would be as amused as I’ve been. Thanks for playing.
Hi Terry,
Thanks for the good humour. Given that all the definitions of suicide in the dictionary do not require consciousness, yeah…I’d say that animals can act suicidally However, the suicide statement of your sources could be modified to something like “humans are the only animals that commit suicide in a way that is counterproductive for their biological fitness”. That is true (to my knowledge). cheers
, but I did briefly quite some time ago. About that time, a rough estimate for when, in the past, pre-humans “got the image of God”. Can’t remember exactly, but I think Atoine conjectured that it was about 40,000 years ago [Don’t quote me; I may have the years wrong.] For more, ask Antoine or some regular participant in that thread for info on Antoine’s guess and rationale for it.
