- Guess you’re not a “Bharatiya”
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Why not?
What is the definition of faith?
Whether you fall back on Paul or the OED, faith involves ignoring reason and knowledge. Yes we can rationalise our faith and even justify it to ourselves, but at the end of the day the basis of faith has nothing to do with intellect and even less to do with knowledge.
IQs are measured by our ability to reason and think laterally. Both these things are in contention with faith.
If we take the bible at face value fiath is almost certain, but we can’t. Why, because of what we know or think we know! So we start reasoning and thinking and constructing this theory or that doctrine. We have a need for Scirture to be accurate and authorative, but we see flaws or inconsistencies and our need for perfection kicks in.
I have been accused of attacking Scripture, disbelieving Scripture, abusing Scripture and so on. Scripture does not need defending. It is what it is. It functions. It is only us Christians that muddy the waters.
Richard
- Some people think that means humans can believe anything they want to believe.
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So is life but our capacity to live is not always under our control. Our Intellect is a gift from God, to use or not, but it directly affects the way we think, and choose and rationalise.
I do not think that faith is something that God controls. Such an idea is abhorrent. It smacks of Calvinism or predestination. It gives God a control that I do not think He wields (whether He could or not).It goes against all views of freedom of choice, and freedom in general.
Richard
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I would say that scripture is 100% true in the story that it tells, not necessarily every detail. For example, the Bible is not intended to be a cosmology textbook, so it is not a problem that some verses seem to suggest a flat earth since that wasn’t the intent of the Biblical authors. I also think that the truth of scripture is sometimes not recognized because of gaps in our knowledge. I would agree that the evidence for a global flood is lacking and I do not expect that belief to be vindicated anytime soon. The idea of a global flood also does not necessarily fit the Biblical context either. My rejection of the idea that you have to throw out logic and reason to be a Christian is why I reject the omphalos hypothesis, that God created the universe to look old. The idea that you can come to the wrong conclusion about the origin of creation just by doing honest research is anti-intellectual and contradicts the character of God as being a God of truth.
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All of that had nothing to do with intellect itself being a stumbling block, but more supporting my point about what we pay attention to as the real problem.
Plus they aren’t old enough to have started playing the power and dominance games adults – and even teens – get into.
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Well, I’m not sure–my kids are not born perfect, I’m afraid (must be my side of the family). I would certainly say that juxtaposed next to the power holders, the adults, they are humble–but among each other, they can be just as much stinkers as we are :).
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Agreed. We have a kindergartner in the house while my daughter’s family is in transition, and he is pretty much all about himself. But amazingly, kids who start out pretty much amoral turn out to be functional adults. So, I don’t think that verse is about behavior at all, but more about their humility and openness to change, i.e. their moldability as @jammycakes suggested.
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I guess I should have fleshed that out more. My thinking is that they aren’t (yet) “habitual offenders”, they’re opportunistic. Adults have made sin a habit, kids just dabble.
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I think you’re totally right. @jammycakes is too! Thank you. I shouldn’t have been so broadstroked.
Thank you.
This point got fleshed out by theologian Bo Giertz in relation to infant baptism. As I recall he used the image of rebels in a kingdom, making the distinction between those who are inconsistent rebels who rebel on occasion when it occurs to them, on the one side, and the confirmed, determined rebels who are set in their ways. Thus children are automatically “fit” for Baptism whereas we have to surrender; they are naturally open while we are closed.
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Oh, wow–that’s quite interesting. I’m not sure–I think I’ve met some adults who are inconsistent (probably not I)
My dad’s dispensationalist tradition actually felt that baptism was for the Church Age, 
so he was never baptized–though I was, eventually, in my 30s.
Some are more determined rebels than others. I’ve met a very few people in my life whom I would say were still very much childlike, and at the other end of the spectrum I’ve known some who were very determined, hardened sinners.
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Sigh.
The general opinion of people and society is very low on this forum.
Whatever happened to the notion of trying to find the good in people?
Richard
None are good except the Lord- Jesus
( But despite that, the potential for good is there, and as you say, we need to look for it.)
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There is a distinction between being good and doing good. IME good deeds can come from surprising people. Unfortunately the opposite is also true, that bad deeds (and words) can come from people who should (or claim to) know better.
Richard
Yet:
Now there was a good and righteous man named Joseph who, though a member of the council,
Acts 11:22-25
New Revised Standard Version Updated Edition
22 News of this came to the ears of the church in Jerusalem, and they sent Barnabas to Antioch. 23 When he came and saw the grace of God, he rejoiced, and he exhorted them all to remain faithful to the Lord with steadfast devotion, 24 for he was a good man, full of the Holy Spirit and of faith. And a great many people were brought to the Lord.
The scriptures call these two men good.
Even better, the scriptures call several righteous.
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Most people would understand that all are sinners and that Jesus was making a relative statement.