Atheism & Theism Compared

Faith & Science Conversation
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This is why, in making my suggestion to beagleLady, I said,

Nowhere did I say, “speak aloud to a rock.” The creation implies that which has been created. The title of my thread is Atheism & Theism Compared, so the context makes it clear that, overall, I’m talking about God the creator, as defined by my clarification to Christy,

and thus “speak to all of creation” means speak to all God has created.

The Old Testament has established that it’s desirable for human seeking face time with God to interpose a mitigation, thus some object of God’s creation should mediate between human & God, as the cloud & then the burning bush in the case of Moses.

Given this common knowledge, it should be clear that urging a believer to talk to God’s creation means connecting to God with some restriction upon the directness of the connection.

Nowhere have I invoked pagan worship of natural objects apart from God’s immanence within.

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Did Jesus raise Lazarus from the dead?

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For all intents and purposes, yes. If Lazarus merely resuscitated just when Jesus said “Come out”, then it was spectacular timing and placing (i.e., Jesus’ presence and spoken words) after he had been in the tomb four days!

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We are urged to talk to God himself, never his inanimate and impersonal creation.

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If you are urging anyone to talk to God via his immanence in natural objects, that is pagan.

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Let’s examine what you’ve written. Via = by means of, by way of, through. God, (as I’ve stated above) = the God of the Christian Trinity. Immanence, = God’s indwelling presence within the material world (with understanding that God is not limited to the material world).

The sentence means God is present & real within the natural world around us. Of necessity, we interact with our material world constantly. If God is present there, then we interact with God constantly. It’s common parlance to say something like, “I took a leap of faith & dove off the high diving board.” This is someone talking about interacting with a material world where immaterial God has presence.

If all of this is paganism, and well it might be, then, for me, it confirms what I’ve heard from scholars, to wit: Christianity borrows heavily from paganism (e.g. the birthday of Jesus, in the fall, was moved to 25 Dec to coincide with winter solstice).

Also, talking to the creation is cosmically inclusive, so animate, natural objects, such as rocks, rivers, sunsets & the like are not singled out and held apart from the omnipresent spirit.

Perhaps what you intend to say is different from what you’ve written.

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Here you sound like a rationalist hedging his bets about the reality of resurrection.

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Absolutely. But I don’t pray to him via a rock.

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Your lack of concern about being in God’s overwhelming presence suggests doubt about the reality of God.

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@ucarr , I wonder if you could tell us more about yourself–your interests, etc. It is good to get to know new folks. In addition, maybe that would help explain what you want to explain.

I’m a missionary kid who was born in Nigeria and grew up in West Africa, but my family are from West Michigan. I currently work in West Michigan, not far from Grand Rapids. I grew up young earth creationist, but encountered many interesting people who helped me understand science better as I grew up. I attend a Baptist church.
Thanks.
Randy

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Perhaps you should become more acquainted with what I believe before you say things that reveal how new you are here.
 

Again, you show an almost complete lack of familiarity with what I post, even above.

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Message to Moderator Christy Hemphill & all established correspondents to Biologos Forum,

Today I got a wakeup call. After I made the suggestion to beaglelady to “talk to the creation,” I think I see that various members have been responding to that instruction by taking recourse to another instruction: Do not worship false idols.

I agree with that instruction.

I’m not promoting paganism, or any other ideology that would have correspondents deviate from their chosen spiritual path.

I respect the relationships you’ve already established with your pastors & your congregations.

I have no intention to put myself into competition with the Christian clergy.

I hope Christy will share this clarification with anyone who might be interested.

Uriah Carr

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Hello Randy,
I grew up on the south side of Chicago. When I was very young, the local population had a frail grip on middle-class status. After the 70s, changing times gave my native city a new face. You may have seen some of its aspects on the nightly news.

I now live in southern CA.

I spent 15 good years as a member of a small church in rural CA. The experience has changed my life in positive ways I’m still discovering & utilizing.

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My parents too. And I grew up in the working class South suburbs.

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Mr Carr, thank you for your note.

That is interesting! Maybe you can tell us some more.

Some keep the Sabbath going to Church – (236)

BY EMILY DICKINSON

Some keep the Sabbath going to Church –

I keep it, staying at Home –

With a Bobolink for a Chorister –

And an Orchard, for a Dome –

Some keep the Sabbath in Surplice –

I, just wear my Wings –

And instead of tolling the Bell, for Church,

Our little Sexton – sings.

God preaches, a noted Clergyman –

And the sermon is never long,

So instead of getting to Heaven, at last –

I’m going, all along.

Or, Elizabeth Barrett Browning:

Earth’s crammed with heaven,
And every common bush afire with God;
But only he who sees, takes off his shoes,
The rest sit round it and pluck blackberries

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