Are Neanderthals in Gods Image

Their cumulative intentional human genius over four hundred thousand years isn’t speculative. Boats are more fundamental than the wheel. Reed rafts, log rafts. Neanderthals were immensely strong as shown by their tendon and ligament grooved larger bones. They used large hand axes without hafts; for dugouts. They made adhesive tar from birch bark… curved birch bark… laminates. Ducts, tubes… canoes. They colonized the Greek islands, Sardinia, Sicily. Not by swimming, powerful swimmers tho’ they’d be, more so than we, the most powerful terrestrial swimmers now.

So, what do you see constitutes the “image of God”?

And if Gen 1-5 is basically a human written story, why should it be accurate at all? Isn’t it just human vanity?

Richard

All is vanity, as scripture says. The imago Dei metaphor included. The divine in hurting, suffering, yearning meat is best idealized in Christ for sure. The idea of a best case God yearning ultimately universally competently for and with us is the greatest.

I am not convinced that is the true meaning of the chorus in Ecclesiastes. I think it is closer to “meaningless” or “hot air” than the more personal vane viewpoint.

Richard

Well that’s certainly true of the cloud castles of metaphor constructed on the musings of ancient men.

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That’s the thing about scriptures. The Hindus have been trying to circumnavigate the Vedics for years

Richard

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Genesis 6 When people began to multiply on the face of the ground, and daughters were born to them, 2 the sons of God saw that they were fair; and they took wives for themselves of all that they chose.

Aren’t the daughters of men descendants of Adam?

And the sons of God (not descendants of Adam) could very well be Neanderthals.

And many of us have Neanderthal DNA.

It’s likely that Neanderthals were. Evidence from burial sites suggest that they meet the criteria for the traditional views that define imago Dei in the Bible.
The substantive view suggests that there are shared characteristics in human that God has that makes us of a similar substance.
The relational view is that humans have complex social relationships, reminiscent of the Trinitarian relationship amongst (them?)itself and humans.
The functional view is that humans are stewards and rulers over creation in God’s stead. Image of God - Wikipedia
The fourth is something related to abstract thinking, like hoping and future thinking.

I can’t get to the article anymore, but the summary for Megan Stueve’s research to include homo neanderthalensis in the image of God says

The archaeological record proves that Neanderthals qualify for imago Dei under each of the four main interpretations of the biblical term. Based on their rationality and adaptive nature, their compassion through use of medicine, their social networking and their symbolic use of art, it can be concluded that Neanderthals were also created in God’s image.
Megan Stueve, Formed in the Image of God: The Theological Status of Neanderthals
On Knowing Humanity Journal July 7, 2017

As human behavior can attest, the image of God is dynamic and probably encompasses these areas in more than a straightforward way. The views and knowability of those characteristics and their qualities probably change from culture to culture and time to time. For instance, humans are connected in such an incredible way through social media, which can lead to good outcomes for themselves and others, but few would likely argue all that those relationships are in themselves better off not being in person. (There may be situations where it is a good thing to have distance.)

We can reveal God, or we can warp His image.
“No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭4:12‬ ‭NIV‬‬
In John 14, Jesus says that anyone who has seen him has seen the Father, because what he has said and done is from God.
In 1 Corinthians 12, Paul tells the church that they are each a part of the Body of Christ.
If Neanderthals didn’t have a partnership in the qualities of the image of God, but were just recipients, then that’s likely not a good case for being in an equal position within the image that humans are. However, like it was stated earlier, individuals who lack certain cognitive abilities are among a broader group that is meant to care for each other, and Neanderthal burial sites demonstrate that they did so.

I personally don’t think the traditional views on the image of God are nearly the whole picture. However, it’s a wonderful question that encourages us to plum the depths of homo and Scripture to discover what God’s image could be. Part of that image is discovery :slight_smile:

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I can’t even…

Not everyone can, but do continue to be open to possibilities.

The idea of Neanderthal and modern human interbreeding is well supported by DNA, and the Genesis 6 passage may be a vestige of ancient oral tradition.

Such as alien abductions.

We all know that. And we know that because the Neanderthal genome has been sequenced.

Yes, probably borrowed from pagan mythology. There are a lot of opinions on what “sons of God” in Genesis 6 refers to, but you are the only person in the world (I hope) who thinks they might have been Neanderthals.

Who do you think are the sons of God from Genesis 6?

I did not borrow pagan mythology. I did consider the science.

The only scientific evidence that we have of interbreeding with humans points to ancient hominids Neanderthals and Denosivans.

Could the children of the mixed union been larger than either parent? That is what happens with ligers.

The sons of god are always the chosen people in the Old Testament. In this case it is the sons of Adam and Eve, who married the daughters of the other people in the world (not some imaginary sisters never spoken of in the Bible) – daughters of all those people out there whom Cain was afraid would kill him.

The word “giants” is often used in ways other than size and this is the meaning suggested by this passage as well.

Genesis 6:4 There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.

Men of renown… giants among men… leaders of human civilization… and not fairy tale giants from Jack and the Beanstalk!

Yeah, you are really pushing the boat out to try and marry Genesis 1-9 to science, why?

It is obvious that the knowledge of science was minimal in the days when this was written, so why on earth are you desperate to make it make scientific sense? Does it really matter that much?

Richard

What are you talking about??? What science is there in my explanation? NONE! Quoting the Bible is equivalent to marrying Genesis to science?

It is people like 03Cobra inserting nonsense about genetics into the Bible who are forcing a marriage of Genesis to science. I am doing nothing of the kind.

Stick to talking about what YOU believe, because when you talk about the beliefs of others you sound like an insane person. And your hostility to the book of Genesis is a very poor excuse.

You know… a PRODUCTIVE approach would be to give us YOUR understanding of the meaning of “sons of God.” I frankly would like to hear an understanding of Genesis from you other than the complete dismissal which is all I ever hear from you. Otherwise why don’t we hear your frank admission that you just want to cut pieces out of the Bible like Marcion?

Unfortunately, that doesn’t fit the text.

Since man and Adam are the same Hebrew word, the daughters of men would be descendants of Adam.

The inconsistent translation of the Hebrew can be confusing.

You mean it doesn’t fit your interpretation of Adam as talking about mankind in general. People are named after things. Some are named after eagles, clouds, and flowers – it doesn’t mean they are eagles, clouds, or flowers.

In any case, YOU asked for the opinion of someone else what the “sons of God” mean, and I gave you mine. Thus the claim of @beaglelady that there are lots of opinions on what “sons of God” refers to is substantiated. None of your arguments for your own opinions which I have heard many times and will not agree with will change this in the slightest.

You know that term is rare in the scriptures, don’t you? The term “always” in your post doesn’t make sense.

Can you name one passage out of Genesis 6 in which it means what you say it means?

Job 1:6 doesn’t seem to fit your view.

Job 1:6 (KJV) Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

Here is where sons of God are mentioned in the Bible and there are lot more which refer to the “children of God.” Yes some argue that the three in the book of Job refer to angels contrary to all the other uses. But I do not agree with them. It does not say they are angels and thus it could easily mean the same as it means in the rest of the Bible.

Exodus 4:22-23
Then you shall say to Pharaoh, ‘Thus says the Lord, “Israel is My son, My firstborn. So I said to you, ‘Let My son go that he may serve Me’; but you have refused to let him go. Behold, I will kill your son, your firstborn.”’”

2 Samuel 7:14
I will be a father to him and he will be a son to Me; when he commits iniquity, I will correct him with the rod of men and the strokes of the sons of men,

1 Chronicles 17:13
I will be his father and he shall be My son; and I will not take My lovingkindness away from him, as I took it from him who was before you.

1 Chronicles 22:10
He shall build a house for My name, and he shall be My son and I will be his father; and I will establish the throne of his kingdom over Israel forever.’

1 Chronicles 28:6
He said to me, ‘Your son Solomon is the one who shall build My house and My courts; for I have chosen him to be a son to Me, and I will be a father to him.

Job 1:6
Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them.

Job 2:1
Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came among them to present himself before the Lord.

Job 38:7
And all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Psalm 2:7
“I will surely tell of the decree of the Lord:
He said to Me, ‘You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You.

Hosea 1:10
Yet the number of the sons of Israel
Will be like the sand of the sea,
Which cannot be measured or numbered;
And in the place
Where it is said to them,
“You are not My people,”
It will be said to them,
“You are the sons of the living God.”

Matthew 5:9
Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.

Luke 6:35
But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High; for He Himself is kind to ungrateful and evil men.

Luke 20:34-36
Jesus said to them, “The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage, but those who are considered worthy to attain to that age and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; for they cannot even die anymore, because they are like angels, and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.

Romans 8:12-25
So then, brethren, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh— for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live. For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.

2 Corinthians 6:14-18
Do not be bound together with unbelievers; for what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness, or what fellowship has light with darkness? Or what harmony has Christ with Belial, or what has a believer in common with an unbeliever? Or what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; just as God said,
“I will dwell in them and walk among them;
And I will be their God, and they shall be My people.
“Therefore, come out from their midst and be separate,” says the Lord.
“And do not touch what is unclean;
And I will welcome you.
“And I will be a father to you,
And you shall be sons and daughters to Me,”
Says the Lord Almighty

Galatians 3:24-29
Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

Galatians 4:1-8
Now I say, as long as the heir is a child, he does not differ at all from a slave although he is owner of everything, but he is under guardians and managers until the date set by the father. So also we, while we were children, were held in bondage under the elemental things of the world.
But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law, so that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons. Because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!” Therefore you are no longer a slave, but a son; and if a son, then an heir through God. However at that time, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those which by nature are no gods.

Ephesians 1:5
He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will,

Revelation 21:7
He who overcomes will inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be My son.

Source: 31 Bible verses about Sons Of God

Obviously I am not buying into the argument that “sons of God” means anything different than these other references – nor different from the reference to children of God for that matter.

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The author thought they were some kind of divine beings. There has been a lot of speculation about who these guys were.

The author probably borrowed from pagan mythology.
How did you consider the science?
Imagine claiming that we have the genome for the sons of God in genesis 6!!
At any rate, the Society of Biblical Literature might like to hear about your ideas.