Are humans more than animals?

Complex is what humans think, say and do. Measurably, calculably, empirically, objectively more than any other organism. Do Daphnia’s genes express that she is a naiad? I wouldn’t dream of making an a priori subjective definition, whatever that is. I have no choice of measure, there is none.

Which doesn’t know what you’re going on about.

Well if you had God’s Wit maybe you would. You see it’s right there in the name. :wink:

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My logical brain doesn’t understand your wonderful poetry, you are certainly more evolved than me :wink: Best!

I know what you’re complexly going on about, the BTG would not.

When the Godwit can do what we are doing right now with the infrastructure we rely on that some other one of us has made, and collaboratively compose and alter poetry over the life of this platform and maybe beyond, while never actually coming into view of each other, I might consider it similarly complex.

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The randomness of the universe seems a better explanation to me for poetry than evolution – if you are going to indulge in a dubious scientific explanation at all. If some advantage for survival was behind poetry then I think a lot of its pretentiousness would evaporate and the definition of “poetry” would be greatly altered.

Collectively we are all that. But for actually poking these keys to write some words that convey some ideas we care to convey, I find very little effort or individual exceptionalism is required. We and the Godwits are just doing what comes naturally.

drifts off remembering a saucy show tune from Annie Get Your Gun

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Ah, but you’re more gracious, which isn’t difficult. But is more complex.

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We naturally engage in these highly nuanced interwoven verbal, i.e. symbolic dialogues. BTGs don’t. I would sacrifice a child to see one.

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BTG’s? Bacon & Tomato Giants?

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WOW! You just described a third of my tea! Even in this heat, tut missus said the makings of an FEB needed to be used.

I think of humans as being physically animals, but spiritually different, and separated from other creatures because of our responsibility and our morality that mere animals don’t have.

What morality that animals don’t have? Our arbitrary taboos? Or what? And what is responsibility?

At least birds are smart enough not to drop coins in various bodies of water for luck. Even in National Parks! Even at Disney’s Pirates of the Caribbean ride! The stupid, it burns!

And coins aren’t anywhere near as useful to birds as they are to people.

But maybe that is the point. The usefulness of coins to people is perhaps what deceives us into thinking they can to more than they actually can.

I think humans are biologically animals but “physically” includes a great deal more than biology (though perhaps that is my bias as a physicist to which the word “physical” refers to far more than just the body) and clearly there is a lot more to even the physical existence of humans than biology. After all… what are you doing… right now. Why are you doing it? What biological function does it have?

Actually… I don’t think the difference from animals is spiritual. When it comes to spirit, I think we have more in common with the animals than most people think… and getting in touch with our spiritual side will actually bring us closer to them rather than farther away.

Nor do I think animals are without morality. They also have codes of conduct and will hold each other accountable accordingly.

No the difference from animals is language and the mind. And that is why you are doing what you are doing right now. It is like a whole other world than the biological – us sitting here at our computers typing and typing as if these words, words, words and more words mean something. LOL It is all quite peculiar and even alien to the animal world.

Bees have a symbolic language. But yes, we have words. Sometimes used for stupid or evil purposes.

So if animals can do wrong, they sin?

Yes animals can and do have self-destructive habits. Yes animals can fall short of the glory of God. Yes animals can act contrary to God’s desire.

Does this mean there was no fall of man?

No.

God spoke to us using that language which makes us so much more than animals. God adopted us as children, and as our parent God had great hopes for us which we very much disappointed.

Only in a symbolic sense. :laughing:

What language isn’t symbolic I wonder.