I am serious. You seemed to be arguing that if Jesus Christ is a part of a church’s official (and preferred)name and designation then it must be a Christian church.
I believe that each religion is defined by some basic beliefs/doctrines. Although Christians differ greatly in what they believe, they still hold to some basic beliefs. Christianity holds that there is but one god, who is eternal and does not change. Furthermore, this one god is spirit, not flesh. What do you think?
I think labels that are meant to describe complex concepts can deceive as much as inform. The label, Christian, is one such. You state that Christians hold that there is but one God. So do Muslims. But when you say Jesus is divine, more than a billion Muslims cannot agree. You cannot condense core beliefs so they fit on a bumper sticker.
Could I assent to Mormon theology? Of course not. Am I comfortable with Roman Catholic theology? Not entirely, but I admit that some things must be accepted on Faith. On the other hand, some Christian doctrines, such as Calvanistic predestination and Barthian ‘God as totally Other’, are completely unacceptable to me.
In my Worldview, as strange as it may sound, God is my closest Friend, even though I know I must disappoint Him at times. I can dare to believe that only because God sent His Son to show us the way to Him. Does this mean that Jesus was God before the Universe was created? I just don’t know. Do you?
God bless
Al Leo
I’m not sure why you brought this up. Belief in one God for Christians is not controversial. I’m describing a very basic belief held by Christians, that is also held by Jews and Muslims. This is the belief that there is one God who is eternal and does not change.
It’s what I believe. It’s in the Nicene Creed, which describes Jesus as “begotten of the Father before all worlds, Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father”
[quote=“beaglelady, post:64, topic:35217”]
[Al Leo] Does this mean that Jesus was God before the Universe was created? I just don’t know. Do you?
@beaglelady
It’s what I believe. It’s in the Nicene Creed, which describes Jesus as "begotten of the Father before all worlds, Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father"
Beaglelady, I am not trying to be contentious or obnoxious with my responses in our repartee. Your previous posts clearly show you have given considerable thought to matters of religion and theology. My point is: it is easy to (perhaps unconsciously) look down upon or denigrate someone else’s belief if it differs markedly from your own. This was certainly the primary (but not the only) cause of the disastrous wars between Christian nations in the Middle Ages and for the Crusades earlier. In the Atomic Age, such a war between Christianity and Islam is unthinkable.
You state that the Nicene Creed is what you believe. I profess that Creed every Sunday at Mass. But I have trouble believing parts of it I do not understand. As stated previously, I have trouble believing in just one God if the Godhead consists of three equal persons and the one we revere as Christ existed before the Universe was created. And every Sunday I profess that Jesus is of one substance with the Father. But how can that be? God the Father is pure non-material Spirit. When I look up what ‘substance’ means in what I am proclaiming, I get (from Google)
(1) a particular kind of matter with uniform properties.
synonyms: material, matter, stuff
"an organic substance"
2. the real physical matter of which a person or thing consists and which has a tangible, solid presence.
"proteins compose much of the actual substance of the body"
synonyms: solidity, body, corporeality;
[ /quote]
When the Nicene Creed was formally adopted, the words ‘one substance’ (or consubstantial) evoked a different concept in the framers minds than the same words do today. It would be difficult for me to frame my concept of ‘one God’ into words that everyone else would completely understand. I am not surprised, therefore, that Muslims have difficulty of conveying to me their concept of Allah from quotations from the Koran, or that Mormons have difficulty conveying their concept of Jesus Christ as Son of God sent to this earth to guide us humans. What is important to me is how their beliefs guide them in their dealings with the rest of humanity.
Pilate was not being just the ultimate skeptic when he asked "What is Truth? Not something one can paste on the rear of a chariot.
Al Leo
Richard, thank you for your reply. Great logic derived from what you find in the Bible. So you choose to believe and practice immersion. So the real question becomes: Will Jesus reject those who celebrate his life and ritual of baptism by sprinkling instead of immersion?
I don’t think I’m denigrating or looking down on anyone. I’m simply saying that Christians believe in one God, who is spirit and not flesh, who is eternal and had no beginning. Furthermore, Christians don’t believe in multiple gods, and they don’t believe in a pre-existence.
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