- Fun to watch for Erika’s funny delivery of 'The Heat Problem" if nothing else.
2 Likes
Ooh – “This data is preclusionary”.
I’m hooked…
Oh yeah.
The Bible speaks of flooding the Earth. What does speeding up radioactive decay to do with water everywhere? Just create the water and you do not have to worry about vaporizing the planet to plasma.
And slamming the moon and Mercury with meteorites during the flood. Why does Mercury get creamed and not the Earth? Did the fleeing earthlings even notice Mercury above the clouds? What did Mercury ever do to warrant punishment? Was the lump of rock sorry afterwards? The point is that YEC has come to invest the flood as a magic erasure for any inconvenient scientific fact, without the slightest regard for scriptural intentionality. It is industrial apologetics.
6 Likes
The irony being that as much as AiG preaches against “secularism” and science, they want nothing more than to be considered scientific.
6 Likes
- Intrigued, I explored a couple of features of “the heat problem” and discovered that there are few radioactive isotopes in the human body, so very little heat output during the Resurrection. I figure the biggest consequence of the Resurrection wasn’t the radioactive decay but the flash of light output which could well have been what put the image on the Shroud.
Plasma that emits as much light as a small galaxy, as I calculated here:
The other option (besides messing with the strong nuclear force) for speeding up decay is to dramatically decrease the speed of light, which would decrease atomic binding energy by the same factor, which would solve that part of the heat problem. Unfortunately, it would also make protons and neutrons fall apart, so it doesn’t really fix anything.
Just plate movement is bad enough:
3 Likes
Consider the possibility that Earth’s main volcanism, like the creation of angels and water, and all of the huge meteorite events, aren’t in Genesis because they happened BEFORE GENESIS, as my book by that name claims.
What is the explanation for the moon and Mercury getting pummeled with meteorites and the earth largely being spared?
The Earth has been pummeled just as much, if not more than the Moon due to the Earth being larger. The difference is that Earth is geologically active which erases much of the evidence for those impacts. As one example, the massive 75 km diameter Chicxulub impact crater that marked the end of the dinosaurs was only discovered in the last 60 or so years, and it took some powerful instrumentation to find it.
2 Likes
As @T_aquaticus explained, observed cratering in the solar system is what we would expect, with bodies that are subject to little erosion and geologic activity displaying the accumulated cratering of billions of years, and active bodies such as Earth showing much less obvious cratering. Meteorites do not discriminate, but erosion can vary tremendously.
This presents YEC with a problem. The number of lunar craters is orders and orders of magnitude too high to be consistent with the current rate of impacts, and so is wildly inconsistent with a 6,000 year history. This is data that cannot be reasonably interpreted with a “creationist lens”, and can be directly verified by anyone with a pair of binoculars.
The relevance to the heat problem is that meteorites capable of producing large craters pack enormous kinetic energy, and essentially all that is turned into thermal energy. Like all the speeded up processes that YEC appeals to, such as tectonic movement and radioactive decay, the effect of compressing the time interval over which such releases of energy take place, each result in temperatures which would liquefy, vaporize, or ionize the Earth, even before adding the various contributions all together. These are gross amounts, not the output of close, fudgy, calculations you need to rely on scientists to understand.
So when AiG says, a miracle is central to dealing with heat in their model, that may be a rare moment of honesty, but it undermines the whole enterprise. All that discussion of Polonium halo’s? What is the point? The rocks are gone, their minerals vapor. Noah’s flood becomes Noah’s steam bath, the Earth an incandescent ball. As I stated, if a miracle is invoked, why not just send water, as the Biblical narrative reads. What is the point of this elaborate YEC flood model with accelerated radiometric decay and meteorite bombardment? What is all that for? The answer is that it is all to wave away evidence for an old Earth, ridiculous explanations Trojan horsed into the Biblical story even though that has nothing at all to do with it.
4 Likes
Their own statement of faith requires it.
They have stated outright that they will never come to any other conclusion, no matter the evidence.
4 Likes
Of course they have their own silly definition of that and what they allow as ‘historical’, or else they just ignore it and rant about the ‘clear teaching’.
Most planetary scientists think that our moon was formed from a collision between the earth and a rogue planet. In other words, a chunk of earth broke off and became the moon.
Trouble is, the clear teaching of Scripture contradicts the clear teaching of Scripture.
1 Like
Or the massive debris cloud reconsolidated into what became the moon.
1 Like
Jammycakes…2 Peter 3:8 cannot speak of evolution…the reason why is because of verse 5-7
5But they deliberately overlook the fact that long ago by God’s word the heavens existed and the earth was formed out of water and by water, 6through whichb the world of that time perished in the flood. 7And by that same word, the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.
Christians cannot use that text to support evolutionary driven theology …its simply the wrong reading of the text.
Now to address the other supposedly supporting text Psalms 90:4…again it is simply misreading the passage of scripture. This text is talking about the everlasting God…not the age of the earth. And i point readers to the first 2 verses in that chapter of Psalms as proof such an application of this text is wrong…
1Lord, You have been our dwelling place
through all generations.
2Before the mountains were born
or You brought forth the earth and the world,
from everlasting to everlasting
You are God.
In the bible there are no examples where that principle [day is a thousand years] is used to describe literal historical events (ie dates, times, places, people of past times for the then writer) and there are figures of speech consistently used to convey whether or not something written is meant to be taken as historical fact or not. Generally the day as a thousand years principle is used almost exclusively in prophetic terms outside of this passage and SDA scholars among a number of protestants evangelical religions, use it for exactly that purpose.
I am not debating the scientific issue here and I have no problem with YEC inability to adequately explain various scientific problems. However, even evolutionary science has an enormous number of problematic issues that they have no answers for…so that in and of itself is a red herring to be honest.
For Christians the reality is quite simple…if you continue to push the evolutionary model, you cannot accept the Mosaic Sanctuary model as being historical (because of Exodus 20:8-11). Therefore you are forced into claiming that Moses’ writings are an allegorical story…the problem here is that the very first murder documented in the bible (which breaks commandment 6) clearly shows that both the commandments and sacrificial system were in place more than 1500 years before the time of Moses. These were not Mosaic laws only applicable to the Israelites.
Finally, those who understand the book of Revelation will note that the taking of the gospel to the Gentiles and regular references to God’s people as spiritual Israel (modern saved Christians) are those that:
Revelation 14:12 Here is a call for the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God [including the 4th] and the faith of Jesus.
Christians cannot pick pieces out of the bible in the O.P manner and not run into enormous theological problems.
Well Adam, if you want to argue against the Bible, that is entirely between you and God, but by insisting that it cannot be reconciled with the fact (and it is a fact, get over it) that the earth is 4.5 billion years old and not six thousand, and that humans and animals share a common ancestor, that is exactly what you are doing.
Jammy, the above is just another statement indicative of a willful ignorance of textual reading. I have used the exact same chapters that contain your posted texts to categorically prove that you are wrong on this interpretation. I am not using my words but those of the very writers you quoted!
AS i said, i am not denying the science claim of mantle cooling…i accept that problem, however, your theology is 100% wrong in the application of the texts you posted. Thats all I am saying…you have interpreted the texts wrong and its clearly wrong to anyone who reads those chapters in their entirety…they will easily see that.
and so that you cannot hide Psalm 90 (you intentionally did not include the verses in quoting me)…i will post it again below
Its very clearly attesting to the Everlasting God and His power.
Psalm 90
From Everlasting to Everlasting
A prayer of Moses the man of God.
1Lord, You have been our dwelling place
through all generations.
2Before the mountains were born
or You brought forth the earth and the world,
from everlasting to everlasting
You are God.
3You return man to dust,
saying, “Return, O sons of mortals.”
4For in Your sight a thousand years
are but a day that passes,a
or a watch of the night.
5You whisk them away in their sleep;
they are like the new grass of the morning—
6in the morning it springs up new,
but by evening it fades and withers.
7For we are consumed by Your anger
and terrified by Your wrath.
8You have set our iniquities before You,
our secret sins in the light of Your presence.
9For all our days decline in Your fury;
we finish our years with a sigh.
10The length of our days is seventy years—
or eighty if we are strong—
yet their pride is but labor and sorrow,
for they quickly pass, and we fly away.
11Who knows the power of Your anger?
Your wrath matches the fear You are due.
12So teach us to number our days,
that we may present a heart of wisdom.
13Return, O LORD! How long will it be?
Have compassion on Your servants.
14Satisfy us in the morning with Your loving devotion,
that we may sing for joy and be glad all our days.
15Make us glad for as many days as You have afflicted us,
for as many years as we have seen evil.
16May Your work be shown to Your servants,
and Your splendor to their children.
17May the favorb of the Lord our God rest upon us;
establish for us the work of our hands—
yes, establish the work of our hands!
1 Like
Adam,
You are insisting that the Bible can not be reconciled with two of the most well-established and rock-solid facts in the whole of biology and the earth sciences. You might as well be arguing that the Bible can not be reconciled with the fact that 1+1=2, or that Jerusalem is in Israel, or that the sky is blue, or that water is wet, or that London and New York have the Atlantic Ocean in between them. No matter how rock solid you think your theology may be to argue such a thing, if you are arguing that the Bible can not be reconciled with rock solid indisputable facts of objective reality such as these, you are arguing against the Bible. Period.
Those are 24-hour days, but they are analogous days.
A thousand years in your sight are like a day that has just gone by, or like a watch in the night.
Psalm 90:4
But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.
2 Peter 3:8