Alternatives to the Adam and Eve origin of sin

These words make me think of pedophiles, who not only ruin lives but often end up creating, through their abuses, other abusers who will perpetuate the cycle of suffering with other innocents.

Terrible.

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at a time were twitter is full of messages from catholic apologists celebrating the conversion of an agnostic atheist turn catholic based on “catholic miracles” proving the truth of the catholic church one should think about ones stance on miracles. If we can’t understand that we can understand things to be a miracle, what chances do we have to understand miracles :slight_smile:

Yes, I have. I have studied this since I was young and I am 71 years old. There may be one thing you have not looked at. That is the folds found in sedimentary layers all over the earth. The folds prove that the rocks were liquid at the time of deposition. That points to the Noahic Great Deluge which also accounts for the presence of fossils in all those layers including the whole of Mt. Everest. Fossils only form in cataclysmic depositions. They do not form in river deltas over long and slow periods of deposition. There are no fossils being formed today. You atheists have to cling to your myths and delusions lest you should have to acknowledge the truth that there is a creator.

Do you really think conventional geology has somehow overlooked rock folds?

That does not stand up to clear thinking. Geology proves there was no recent global flood.

Rocks fold just fine under the force of subterranean pressures and temperatures. This is straightforward material science.

Dewatering and lithification of significant sedimentary deposits requires thousands, even millions of years, so sedimentary rock could not have formed in Noah’s flood.

Wet sediments would not have the integrity to form or maintain the inclines of steep mountains or deep valleys. At best, there would be the Rocky Mounds, not the Rocky Mountains.

Sure there are. Permineralization proceeds where conditions such as low oxygen and mineral rich exposure are right, today as always. There are petrified forests that grew and fossilized on top of sedimentary formations, so they were not formed in any global flood.

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No they don’t. The folds contain tons of rock. If the vertical sections were liquid when formed they would slump to the bottom. Which, BTW has been observed in formations that are known to have formed when still soft.

Fossils form in low oxygen environments in addition to rapid deposition.

Sorry but you can be a Christian without having to fall for the YEC con.

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How do you fold a liquid?

What happens when you fold something that’s wet and unconsolidated?

What happens when you fold something that’s dry and solid?

Rock folds aren’t all the same. In some, the folded layers retain the same thickness across the fold. These folds occurred after the deposited layers were solidified and became incapable of flowing/mixing. In other folds, the folded layers are thicker in one part of the fold than in the rest, usually at the apex. These folds occurred in non-consolidated sediment layers that could still flow and mix, and slumped downwards.[1]

Geologists are not stupid. They would not have failed to investigate this possibility.

Yes there are.

Whales fossilizing on the ocean floor.

Lemur remains in Madagascan marshes.

Penguin fossilizing under guano.

Pre-fossilisation deposits in Australia.

Beginnings of mineralization in archaeological bones.

That’s five examples of organisms in various stages of fossilisation. Of course we haven’t seen a fossil actually form, from death to complete permineralization, because we haven’t been watching for long enough, and if we dig it up, it will never become a fossil. But that doesn’t mean the process isn’t happening.

Why wouldn’t an organism buried in a river delta deposit today not eventually become a fossil?


  1. I considered finding example illustrations, but decided it probably wasn’t worth the effort. ↩︎

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They demonstrate the opposite: deformation of soft (“liquid”) layers does not conform to what we observe. This is seen in lab demonstrations in many university geology courses, and is so well-known that whoever told you this is knowingly lying.

False. There’s a cliff near here where I can go and dig out fossils that were deposited in exactly the conditions you claim don’t work.

You’re basically using lies to support a lie about scripture. That is not a Christian thing to do.

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