As We live alive here, We see all Creatures’ behaviors and the Planet/Universe occurrences. Is Sin Behavior required for Survival? Is it really evil and will God hit Us with Karma? The Planet/Universe Environment kills life with Tornadoes, Earthquakes, Floods, Meteors, etc, does the Universe Sin?
I just think during Jesus Baptism, the Voice said “This is My Son of Whom I am Pleased”, this is all we can try to do. I used to try to Please The Boss at Work, Please Others, etc. I just want to Please “Our Father” as it was indicated His Son did and Forgive Me for whatever might be Sin.
Good thoughts, and to me what pleases the Father is having a heart in tune with Him and loving others as Jesus did, not doing so on the exterior with the goal of pleasing Him, but to truly love as Jesus did. I have a long way to go, and am thankful for grace, as the math doesn’t work for making it on my on.
Yes it is visible but it only posts a note to get the attention of the person it is a reply to. As result, many people ignore posts written as a reply to another person. …just so you know…
I disagree that sin is primarily against God. I think it is primarily against ourselves. God is not harmed in any way by our sin. We are the one harmed by our sin.
I dislike the excessive focus on selfishness. It can lead to distortions. Sometimes we absolutely should focus on our own needs and ignoring them can be a sin. An infant is not sinful because it is selfish. The infants own needs are all it is capable of handling and thus it is only right and proper for it to do so.
Sin can have a number of motivations and justifications and just because you manage a selfless justification doesn’t mean cannot be ultimately self-destructive and sinful.
Gerhard
(Gerhard Nebe-von Caron, formerly "Marvin", Sceptic Christian)
47
thanks so you mean the reply button at the bottom gets a notification to everyone on the topic whilst the direct rely only notifies the person you reply to?
No. It is just that the reply button directly below a person’s post will send them a notification and other people can see that it is a reply to that person and may not read it for that reason.
Modern science can conclusively affirm that the homo sapiens species DID NOT come from one male and female. But I don’t think the Bible text is consistent with such a claim anyway.
Furthermore, I don’t equate humanity with the homo sapiens species. I think we are not just bodies (with only a genetic inheritance we predominantly share with other living organisms on the planet). I believe we are also minds with another inheritance from God alone. I think the breath of life from God (Genesis 2:7) is not magic or a non-physical “soul” but inspiration – ideas bringing the human mind to life and making us so much more than genetics and animals.
In other words… I believe all humanity derives from the interaction of God with Adam and Eve, not genetically but as a matter of ideas and potential.
Science cannot say anything about whether a non-physical thing was inserted into the body at any time. But I think the point is that every measurable functionality of life and being a person traces back to physical causes and thus a claim that some non-physical thing is responsible for our life or humanity is meaningless for all practical purposes – just empty words frankly. Of course a key word there is “measurable.” Could there be something non measurable? Sure. But I just don’t see any good reason (or point) to believe in such a thing.
This is not BTW the same as saying that everything about it is traceable to purely physical causes. Quite the contrary, physical causality is not a closed system. Thus the participation of something non-physical in what we have become is quite possible.
How about an analogy to explain the difference… Suppose someone sees a machine making something and imagines someone they cannot see controlling the machine like a puppet. They can be quite wrong about that, without that being the same thing as the machine having no creator. The correct explanation for the machine’s behavior is in software or electronics and not a person (let alone a non-physical entity) controlling it. And yet the machine was totally the creation of people who designed it and made it to do what it does. This is a limited analogy just to explain one aspect of the difference and not to say that we are anything like a machine.
The scientific method only looks at measurable, quantitate physical aspects of reality to begin with. Focusing on the efficient and material causes (atoms atoms and physical forces) will not define the totality of a person in my view.
How do you measure value, purpose, meaning, abstract thought? How do we explain consciousness? There are a host of things in life–the most important things-- that go well beyond the purview of science and measurability. The soul as the form of the body (not a ghost in a machine) is what makes a person a person in my view. Science says little of formal and final causality (intrinsic teleology), offers only a skeleton view of reality, does not give us an exhaustive picture of anything and cannot explain the immaterial intellect. I look at measurability (science) and come to the exact opposite conclusion about humans as you.
Yep. I would never say that the totality of a person comes purely from physical causes. That is definitely overstating things no matter how much many atheists want to leap over that gap with mere assumption.
Value, purpose, and meaning are subjective. And some accepting only objective aspects of reality seek to deny these are anything at all. But as for abstract thought and consciousness these are complex things we haven’t fully clarified yet. I think there are definitely objective measurable aspects to them while many add subjective things to what they mean by the same words.
Sounds a bit like the spiritual body which Paul speaks of in 1 Corinthians 15. I believe in that. Like you said… “not a ghost in a machine.” I don’t like the word “soul” because it has a history and connection to other religions and beliefs which I don’t believe in at all.
It does not give us an exhaustive picture of everything. But it certainly gives a far more exhaustive picture of many things than anything else ever has.
Science assumes material and efficient causality. And finds gaps in its causal picture of the physical universe. Sure some simply conclude that some things have no causes – just random fluctuations. But I think the fact is the gap means other causes simply cannot be excluded.
Science has no reason to explain something it has no reason to believe exists.
Are you sure? What are these two opposite conclusions you are comparing?
Furthermore, you can find hints of both formal and final causality in some of the more modern scientific findings and theory. You will find the hints of formal causality under the name of holism or holistic behaviors. And there is at least one interpretation of quantum physics pointing to final causality under the names of time symmetric or retrocausality.
What else can it be. Sin is theological, in fact it would seem to be Christological. There is no Science or physicality to it. It is a state or a condition that might correlate to an illness but its effects are not physical either;
Original Sin treats sin as a disease or a living entity that can pass from person to person or generation to generation. And I have even seen people trying to make it Genetic!
Although your view of Habits is alluring, I think it misses the point both theologically and in reality (If sin can be identified as “real”). It seems that Christians are obsessed by it as much, if not more than Eternity. Yet God would not appear to share this obsession.
I am getting a bit close to Accommodation with my view of how God sees sin because it seems that God has provided a solution, purely to satisfy the human demand for one. It is humans that demand perfection and then claim that need comes from God. God needs nothing. If God wishes to declare all insect and non Kosher creatures clean He does so (and did). So why not humans.
We overthink sin. it is a consequence of free choice that is unavoidable for anyone who cannot foresee the future of all actions or inactions. We try, and fail, and God forgives. What more do we need to know?
We even insist on being a part of the solution. We must accept, and/or repent, some even we want to do penance, or serve purgatory. All human demands!
Ah, well, it’s Sunday. I tend to get a bit passionate on Sundays.
I like the illustration of sin being like rocks in fields in some places in the world: it is impossible to plow without hitting rocks, yet there are two ways to respond – focus on the rocks and try to get rid of them, or toss them out of the way and get on with planting. Of those, only the latter results in a crop.
Many Christians are like the first kind of landowner, not realizing that God is saying, “Just plant the crop!” Theologically it’s like acknowledging that sins are not going to magically disappear, and not stressing over that but getting on living for Christ.