Not really. What He says is rather open to interpretation. Paul speaks of a resurrection much more than Jesus does. But then Paul speaks rather clearly on the nature of that resurrection as to a spiritual body rather than a natural or physical body.
Job 7-10 where Sheol is described as a land of darkness and deep shadow
Numbers 16
Psalm 88:4
Jonah 2:6
2 Kings 2 where Elijah was taken up to heaven in a whirlwind.
Psalm 73:24
Psalm 49:14-15
Deut 32:50 When Aaron dies it is said that he is âgathered to his people.â And the OT uses this term for something which happens before they are buried. So equating this with burial is dubious.
It is true that the word âsheolâ is often used for the grave but it also used as the destiny of the wicked alone different from those who are righteous of which it is said they are delivered from death to be with God. And though people are spoken of as being resurrected it does not actually say this will be in the future on the earth.
Hmmm yeah i really dont care about that be here or in heaven. But Jesus said haven will pass away. So what makes you thinn the "eternal kingdom " wont be here?
Well close enough. I would better say a trancended body
Since we are speaking of the afterlife. If anyone remembers in the transfiguration event Moses and Elija was there with Christ. So where did they came from if theres no afterlife?Did they came from âSheolâ?
There are many passages which says the earth and heaven will pass away and then says that a new earth and heaven will come. For every beginning there is an ending. This is the nature of change and transformation. Jesus preached the coming of the kingdom of God on earth and in heaven. But the kingdom of God can only come when the âgod of this worldâ (the devil) is thrown down and his reign upon Earth comes to an end. And this happens both on the earth and in heaven (the hereafter) because they are connected. It is ultimately not the scenery which make a place good, heavenly, and nice but the inhabitants. There really is nothing wrong with the Earth and the universe. The only problem is mankind and our behavior.
Maybe im too naive but if you dont mind can you explain how heaven and earth are connected? I always imagine heaven in another dimension of our world. Like in another universe for example
I explained this right in my very next words. It is connected by the people in it. You cannot expect a place to be better when it is inhabited by the very same people.
Aaahhh thats what you mean by " connected" . Yeah i see now i though you were saying that heaven and earth where âoneâ(i mean they are in a sense) but anyway. Thanks for the clarification
I didnât say that it wasnât real, only that It was not part of Jewish thinking before Christ. It would make sense for Christ to have a different perspective being the only one to have actually been in Heaven. The problem we have is that we cannot possibly be certain before our time comes, unless you believe those who claim to have had a death experience.
I think problems start when you dwell on the prospects and start obsessing about Heaven or Hell, or even imposing your desires (or fears) about them. Furthermore we can only think in terms of linear time. Hell becomes inhuman in real time but might not be so if the âsufferingâ was not within a time frame but a sort of instant and singular âouchâ. Like a disappointment or missed opportunity rather than a prolonged discomfort or tortureâŚ
That is basically what those claiming NDEâs really mean, that they actually died to the extent of experiencing what happens postmortem. But then something happens to pull them back into their bodies. Instead of near death experiences maybe they should be called experiences of resurrection?
They are not real. Theres a chemical imbalance happening during thag time on their brain. So i think its all staged to get attention and as a âtestimonyâ
Well I donât what peopleâs motivations may be who claim such things. Perhaps they are convinced of it and therefore inclined to interpret events accordingly given any opportunity? But I donât take 'NDEâs seriously.
Ehrmanâs tried-and-true method, which he employs over and over, is to point out an area of question and complexity, worthy of discussion and perhaps calling for some qualified language on the part of believers, and amplify it into a monumental issue that should shake us to our very core. This is true in his material about the text of the New Testament, which is not as stable as some believers claim but is nevertheless stable enough to ground strong statements about NT doctrine.
Itâs no different this time. Life-after-death is an undeveloped concept in the OT, consisting of hints and adumbrations until you get to the end of Daniel. Get a good concordance and do a study on the Hebrew word sheol to confirm this.
Likewise, anyone can see that the New Testament does not routinely talk about âgoing to heavenâ the way modern Christians do; passages that say something like that are rare. The âkingdom of heavenâ or âheavenly kingdomâ is a future regeneration of creation that unites heaven and earth in a way that is difficult for us to comprehend (Matt 19:28; Rom 8:21; Pet 3:13). For that reason, Jesus refers to âentering the kingdomâ or âentering into lifeâ instead of âgoing to heavenâ (Mt 19:17; Mark 9:43, 47; et al.). Another way to put this is to say that the New Testament has a developed horizontal eschatology (future oriented, resurrection-oriented view) and an undeveloped vertical eschatology (present-oriented flight of souls to heaven at death).
To acknowledge this distinction in emphasis between NT and modern conceptions of a future eternal state is hardly the same as denying that Jesus taught hope in an afterlife. That hope is on practically every page of the gospels.
Ehrman is well aware of this complexity and nuance but chooses to oversimplify to be more provocative.
Thanks Darek. I appreciate your answer. Thanks again!!! Take care!!!
Klax
(The only thing that matters is faith expressed in love.)
76
Isnât it intriguing how the Widow of Nainâs son, Jairusâ daughter, Lazarus, Eutychus, Dorcas and Jesus Himself reported no recollection of any experience in death?
Klax
(The only thing that matters is faith expressed in love.)
80
I beg your pardon MarkD. So all those since came back from being rotting corpses and they had post-mortem experiences and can tell us all about Heaven, but nobody Biblical did? Why is that I wonder?
