“If you’ve read any of Dembski’s writings…” - EricMH
C’mon, Eric, please work harder at playing fairly. You are aware that I attended the Discovery Institute’s summer program, just like you did. Yes, I’ve read not a few of Dembski’s writings over the years, even obscure ones.
“all his [Dembski’s] examples of intelligent design involve human designers.” - Eric MH
That’s simply false.
“the important issue you raise distinguishing human and ‘transcendent’ (for lack of a better word) design” - EricMH
No, that’s not “the important issue” I raised. Please check again. The available “better words” for communicative accuracy in science, philosophy, theology discourse, imho, when facing IDists, are the terms “Divine Design” (aka uppercase “Intelligent Design”). Otherwise, you’re just putting your own preferred vocabulary on what I wrote, thus turning a dialogue into a monologue.
Simply framed, I asked you about making a distinction between “Divine Design” and “human design” in the context of “design universalism” (the ideology that everything is “designed” and there is nothing that can properly be called “not designed” due to the “play of scales”). You have not, at least that I’ve seen so far, addressed this anywhere near successfully or clearly, which is why I invited you to instead ask your employers, Stephen C. Meyer and John G. West to clarify their own position(s). Again, why not ask them, and convey their answers, not just yours, here, EricMH?
Quite a significant communications problem that could be easily solved still now persists with the IDM and the DI double-talking, using the same terms to speak of “Divine Design” and “human design”. This needs to be cleared up. Will you help clear this up by taking ACTION in contacting Meyer & West to convey their explanation for the DI’s language policy on this “important question” (as you called it)?
“The jump from #2 to #3 is what used to trip me up, and I suspect it may be what is fueling your criticism.” - EricMH
No, it’s really not. I’ve moved past such “arguments” that you are now constructing in your own mind. You still seem rather tripped up and confused. My criticisms are largely fueled by the unsubstantiated, grandiose, and occasionally flat-out false or at least badly misleading claims made by several leaders of the DI & their Fellows, about “ID theory”. When the DI closed their ID for SSH summer program after John G. West spent a week with me in his classroom at SPU, since he realized that any “ID theory” in the social sciences and humanities was practically IMPOSSIBLE (because redunant, low in meaning & value in most potential applications), this was a step forward in shrinking IDism to a more manageable size. But sadly, EricMH, you have never addressed this, and apparently didn’t get the memo about the demotion of “ID theory” from SSH, and so haven’t learned that lesson, along with most other IDists yet.
Let me try another route, in case you may show integrity instead of avoidance following its lead. It happens that just a couple of weeks after I met Behe, Miller & Larmer at the end of last year, I also bumped into Denyse O’Leary for a similarly brief but fascinating encounter. You do know Denyse and have also spoken with her, right, EricMH? She is the journalistic “News” staff for the Bradley Center’s Mind Matters, where you are employed, as well as for other DI-funded projects. So I mentioned to her about having spoken recently with Behe, Miller & Larmer (apparently no one invited her or let her know about the event in the city where she lives!) & that they didn’t answer my questions about the distinction between “Divine Design” and “human design” in the context of “design universalism”. She thought that was odd.
Then I asked what she personally thought about the important distinction. She was a bit perplexed at first, but then responded: “I should think in principle its possible”, i.e. to distinguish between Divine Design and human design. The only thing was, she couldn’t do it! At least she had the integrity to admit what Behe & Miller just expressed stupification at being asked.
So here’s the thing: she works where you work, EricMH. You’re officially “colleagues” at Mind Matters. If you can’t/won’t get an answer from Meyer or West about it, couldn’t you at least publish something together with her there, finally addressing “Divine Design” and “human design” in the context of “design universalism”? Wouldn’t it be better for your own inner peace to know you’ve actually faced this challenge head-on, rather than time and again running away from or ducking it?
It has genuinely become obvious that the Discovery Institute is hiding their duplicity on this very issue in plain sight. The early-20s host (had asked the questions to all participants on stage) and student organizer of the event mentioned above, who ended up in a small group discussion with Miller, Behe & I after the event, realized this quite quickly it. The DI spokespersons simply make a leap of logic/grammar/dialectic, and pretend nothing has happened. It’s a “Poof!”-like issue for “ID theory”, and one that the IDM, including folks like yourself, EricMH, a former student of the DI’s summer program, now employed by the DI, really need to rethink in their hearts to stop obfuscating.
So, in short, will you ask Meyer & West, Eric? If not, why not? Why keep coming up short? This a thread about the supposed “Academic persecution of ID proponents”, right? It would benefit dignified dialogue if you could get an answer from Meyer & West, after all this time. And if not, will you write & make a proposal to publish yourself or with Denyse O’Leary on Mind Matters about it? Again, if not, why not, since it would seem to be well within the purview of your employee mandate at Mind Matters?
At the end of the day, if you’re in real life a guy who’s trying to help people, EricMH, who’s trying to lead people to the glory of God and in service to salvation of fellow human beings, and not just to propagandize to them with ambitious (revolutionary!) quasi-“scientific” jargon and ideology, could you not please step up to the plate in good faith?