Show me where Christ died for only some of our sins.
Who on earth claims otherwise.
However you seem to be claiming that God does not forgive all sins/sinners.
That means that grace is added to. That humans can actually prevent grace. How powerful do you think humans are compared to God? Not only can they corrupt His creation, they can overrule His taking back of it.
Richard
PS Jonah 4 11And should I not have concern for the great city of Nineveh, in which there are more than a hundred and twenty thousand people who cannot tell their right hand from their left—and also many animals?””
He died for all the ungodly; there is no limitation given. So yes, He died for the eternal salvation of all – which is the obvious conclusion from His desire for all men to be saved.
Which BTW is why a number of church Fathers held that eventually all will be saved, because none can thwart His will.
Shall we talk about our timeboundedness and God not so much? There is this little detail about our free will not being thwarted either. And maybe a little extra reading about things destined, willed, to destruction.
Ah yes, the self-centered God who only looks after his own.
You have been criticised before for your iterpretation of John 17.
And he destroys despite His promise not to in Exodus.
Predestination denies the existence of free will. We are just rats in a maze of God’s creation. Not only that it is a one-directional maze with an inevitable conclusion subject to God.s Providential view of who is going to do what.
That is not an argument nor does it change what is said in it. (I could easily take it as a compliment. ; - ) Do you have it highlighted in black marker too?
Where have you been when I have talked about the limitations of timebound words? Predestination is one of them. Properly understood it does not deny the existence of free will. I believe we have free will.
(Besides, are you free not to believe in free will? “We have to believe in free will, we have no choice.” I.B. Singer )
You are not God’s oracle on interpreting the Bible (and neither am I)
It would be arogant to think I knew exactly what the Bible meant at all times and in all places. (and I repeat, I do not claim that)
Furthermore bible interpretation is not a defined art, or science. There is no single viewpoint or understanding so you cannot hold it.or claim another is false. You do not have that authority
Please give us your eisegesis of the highlighted parts. Maybe you’ve never read about the sheep and the goats, the wheat and the tares. This is not the only place he has expressed something similar.
And where does He define these people who are doomed?
You really think you can second guess who God judges?
Read what is there. Not what is not You highlight half phrases as if they can be separated from the rest of the text and impose your views on all of it/ it just does not say what you say it does.
I am not going to split the text up just because you do.
I’ll just let others read it – it’s pretty obvious. Your major problem is me, not what Jesus clearly says and you deny. We could talk about evolution if you’d rather.
None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled. John 17:12
Interestingly, considering the dynamic interface between God’s omnitemporallity, our time boundedness and that tensed words like ‘doomed’ (past tense) do not really apply to God, Judas still had free will and was still responsible for his actions.
This would amount to claim that the Holocaust and the Gulag were already forgiven even before they were committed by Hitler respectively Stalin.
I fear, in this you will not find common ground with anyone in this thread. To have a productive discussion, it would be better if you start a new thread on your own.
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