A Multiverse may be the foundation of God's Creation

I am a theist, 1.5 on the Dawkins scale since I believe doubt is necessary for mental health and to live as if something is true is how I define “knowledge.” But you can also say that I am an agnostic, in the classic sense, with respect to an objective knowledge of the existence of God. I don’t believe that objective knowledge of God is possible. I not only fully acknowledge that my reasons for believing are totally subjective, but I am predisposed to reject the objective validity of any proof or argument for the existence of God. Part of this is because the kind of God that fits my reasons for believing would not agree with such objective knowledge.

Sure… of course, some people are equally sure of the existence of fairies, shetani, ghosts, demit, psychics, or jinn. I certainly acknowledge that my belief in God and angels is just as subjective as their beliefs.

In Jewish theology (my tradition) the idea of multiple worlds is no cause for concern, as many Kabbalists taught exactly that:

https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/982257/sc/fb/fbclid/IwAR3qlcCjBfoqf4owfOkkqmONw7LDcPq6Hv9DGpSco9FIhWgJ0CTpiyQchTA/jewish/Do-Parallel-Universes-Exist.htm

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With all due respect you are getting into trouble because despite your protests, you are comparing the multiverse to God. The problem is that the multiverse is or is supposed to be physical, while God is Spirit. There is no definitive physical evidence for the multiverse, so we have no right to say it exists.

There is much spiritual evidence for the existence of God, which should be definitive. There is also physical evidence for God, such especially the universe. The multiverse would be evidence for the existence of God, if it existed, but something that does not exist is not evidence for God.

What is the knowledge that convinces you to believe in the multiverse? Is it spiritual, philosophical, or scientific knowledge?

Great question Roger A. Sawtelle! I can say that my belief in the Multiverse is based upon all of the above—as spiritual,philosophical and scientific but the core of it comes from the fact that I have been able to photograph and videotape otherworldly entities over the past 3 years.Not just some hum-drum guess-work either—I’m talking Alien Beings,exotic spacecraft,structures,cities,strange landscapes and much more.My collection of photos range into several hundreds with dozens of videos as well.Now,one can then ask the question:How do I know it’s the Multiverse?I really can’t make that call to announce to all the world—but I honestly feel in my heart and soul that it is no matter what others may think after seeing my collection.I have such a story I can tell about it all since I started this in June of 2016.But here we have a planet bent on scientific proof of Multiverse so it is what it is and I stay mellow in-general about it—My wife got plenty of testimony from me but she is not a fan,which I’ve accepted.I am certainly not one to go in reserve about my discovery so I decided to release some of my best work to my YouTube channel:

[Roger,if you wish to view my video again (or those in the forum interested in seeing it)
go to my channel at YouTube >“kenesto’s bestos 100” under my uploads to “Multiverse Dimensions”.]

I am a retired hospital worker now and this is my passion.I hope that you enjoy it Roger!

Roger,I just wanted to point out from your post yesterday that I in no way was comparing a possible Multiverse to God the Almighty.It really would make no sense being that all of reality (Mutiverse or not) comes from God! I also respectfully have no protest to all other opinions on the matter.Everyone has there own beliefs,convictions and opinions and I am not one to try to change any of that.

We know for a fact there are other dimensions existing here in space-time.Do you think it not possible that those can be witnessed by Human eyes.My video may be a look into such dimensions.I know it may be up for speculation by many but I believe it can be a Multiverse.This is my own personal take so others (to include yourself) can decide what they are.Nothing in my video is fake or fabricated in any way though.My camera lens gave me all that you see in the video.God be praised if it is indeed a Multiverse!

Kenneth @quavis, Thank you for sharing. Very interesting.

Just for the record, I do not think those pictures are the result of the multiverse as I understand it would structured. However it looks as if it could stand some further exploration.

Best wishes.

You’re welcome Roger! Believe me,I’m not trying to rally a cause claiming to all that my photos and videos are a Multiverse—The first thing most will say is"prove that they are",which I can’t.But at the same time if it is,why throw it all out and dismiss it entirely? I humbly submit,what if this is mankinds rare opportunity for clues of extraterrestrial life in case scientific testing for a Multiverse will never be possible? I know though as you stated that it stands for further exploration—that is what I do now that I’ retired from the work force (be it my limited capacity for research withstanding). Be certain of this though my friend—whatever these entities are,the Lord created them like he did us,and I ask him regularly for guidance on what to do (if anything ) with this amazing discovery.Thank you for your sincere dialogue Roger!

P.S.Just in case you’re interested part 2 titled “Multiverse Dimensions II” is also available for viewing at “kenesto’s bestos 100” channel under my uploads at YouTube.

Yes indeed mitchellmckain! All are fair game in the fate of subjectivity but what others think and say really has no significance when your own conviction is rock-solid right?

As I’ve said before, I don’t think Christians should base their faith on a heavy burden of proof, which can be disproven if the multiverse were proven true

The multiverse cannot prove Christianity false. The world going to Hell in a handbasket would prove that we humans do not think that Christianity is true.

Good points made aleo! You have a well-endowed perspective that is interesting and universal.
I think that for there to be people who conflict God against the Multiverse concept miss the mark so-to-speak.Throughout the internet they go “If a Multiverse does exists,there can be no God”,or "God or the Multiverse?"Such nonsense is really ludicrous since it; [1] puts God in a position of having no power or authority [2] calling the shots on what should or should not be at a biblical scale [3] Deciding that by some kind of scientific analysis there can be no God if we do find out that the Mutiverse is real.It has to be egos at work by folks who think they know it all I suppose.If there is a Multiverse,it simply means that God has more going on besides us Humans.God was here forever before the Human Race,—is it such a farfetched concept?Besides,who would the Lord have to report his sacred accomplishments to?—Nobody,because he is of course The Man,Head-Honco,Boss,Big -Cheese,Master of Ceremony for the entire Cosmos throughout time!Some I guess just can’t even wrap their head around that I’m afraid.

It’s interesting to me that you promote a multiverse as a kind of testament to God’s eternality, while the whole genesis of the theory was to eliminate the need for a Creator. Are you aware of this?

Yes Doug Martin,I get plenty of that throughout the internet—what I would like to know is who started that theory and why.It’s also interesting to me how a scientific theory like that can be claimed for something totally spiritual as God which is beyond the scope of scientific research,analysis,or data of any kind.

I was reading a lot about all these issues mentioned in this thread(shame I’m soo late to join the party!) I feel like nobody asked this question but is it inconceivable that Hawking was right with the above and also creation was divine? What I mean is that since God created universe wouldn’t that leave physical process for us to discover anyway?

Absolutely! But it would suggest that His act of creation was not the act of a watchmaker in absolute control of everything, but only designing aspects which were crucial to His general purpose (such as those aspects of the laws of nature which made life possible).

Of course, very few of those building the foundations of modern science found their Christianity to be any great obstacle, quite the opposite. For many it was the fact that the universe was created by an intelligent being that made them expect to find a logical order to the physical processes by which things happen.

So Hawking’s triumphant conclusion in “Brief History of Time” that now we no longer need God to explain anything is a rather late stage in development of science.

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Is not genetics and mutation still a form of control? If the process varies too far, it is no longer viable and thus just dead ends.

If you take the point about humans being cursed in relation to genetic reproduction and God did things differently to create Eve. Could it not be hinted at, that the original humans were not biological at all? This sin seperated us from being God on earth. If there was never an Adam, what would things be like? If God created Adam to test the point of being omniscient, it would not have to have been a test at all, since God knew that outcome before the scenario was even set up. If knowledge is control, then with ultimate knowledge, it would be impossible to stop being in control.

This is a very interesting concept. Thank you for this. Does morality (and does God) extend across the multiverse, if it exists? It reminds me of a passage from G K Chesterton’s Father Brown story, “The Blue Cross,” in which Flambeau, a thief, questions Father Brown about the universality of a moral code:

“Ah, yes, these modern infidels appeal to their reason; but who can look at those millions of worlds and not feel that there may well be wonderful universes above us where reason is utterly unreasonable?”

“No,” said the other priest; “reason is always reasonable, even in the last limbo, in the lost borderland of things. I know that people charge the Church with lowering reason, but it is just the other way. Alone on earth, the Church makes reason really supreme. Alone on earth, the Church affirms that God himself is bound by reason.”

The other priest raised his austere face to the spangled sky and said:

“Yet who knows if in that infinite universe——?”

“Only infinite physically,” said the little priest, turning sharply in his seat, “not infinite in the sense of escaping from the laws of truth.”…

“Reason and justice grip the remotest and the loneliest star. Look at those stars. Don’t they look as if they were single diamonds and sapphires? Well, you can imagine any mad botany or geology you please. Think of forests of adamant with leaves of brilliants. Think the moon is a blue moon, a single elephantine sapphire. But don’t fancy that all that frantic astronomy would make the smallest difference to the reason and justice of conduct. On plains of opal, under cliffs cut out of pearl, you would still find a notice-board, ‘Thou shalt not steal.’”

https://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/c/chesterton/gk/c52fb/chapter1.html

Whatever we think of as the origin of reason and morality, it’s an interesting mind exercise. Thanks.

Hey what an interesting concept!—I appreciate the link for “The Blue Cross” based on the topic “The Innocence of Father Brown”. I got to some of it and grasps the idea but really have to read it all (that I promise to do). It seems to be an interesting read!—It strikes me as philosophical in nature and the kind of story that makes one think.

I’m grateful for your response and if one thing I can say I know about you is that you are an open minded person.So many of my responses to my topic are focused on;Why would God Create a Multiverse?While my basic retort would ask;Why would he not Create other Universes?Since we can’t view other possible Universes does that give mankind the green light to announce there are none.I personally think the tendency for humans to defy the idea of possible creatures equal to or even above our intelligence- scale ludicrous and egotistical.No,I’m not saying that we go about assuming there are more Universes out there just on a guess,but with so much out there yet to be explored in the great Cosmos—don’t throw the idea out! In addition I know the the Bible (the greatest book and best-seller ever written)makes no clear-cut reference to a Multiverse—does it have to?God made the Bible as a sacred doctrine for the sake of all Mankind and it would have no necessary reason to refer to other possible creatures in God’s Creation we may never meet.If we don’t have the God-given right to meet and unite with other intelligent beings,than that to me is no excuse to throw out the possibility they they may exist.

Anyway,sorry it took a while for my response Randy—I just hadn’t gotten to the forum lately.Once again thanks for the link of Father Brown’s story and I will read it all by the end of this week.God Bless you sir and keep an open mind since there is still so we have yet to learn about in this great Creation of life.

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It was all really interesting to read through the thoughts. I’ll have to go back through them. I’m not a cosmologist by any means. So this is all just from a open minded Christian amateur perspective. To start like many I believe 100% in the word of God as being true but I don’t believe it was ever meant to be completely literal or accurate. That God just simply used human vessels limits by their understanding and paradigms to reveal his love for us. Same as how Jesus talked about the destruction and ends but also was limited and did not know the hour. So if Jesus himself was temporarily blocked off from knowing everything then I also give that same grace to the prophets and apostles concerning the thing d they wrote about.

With that said I don’t believe that the multiverse contradicts anything in scripture because it’s for one the multiverse is not currently verifiable if it exists and the hints at it are ambiguous enough to be molded to scripture which is itself quite flexible with scientific theories. The reason is because that was never it’s point.

But based off of what I have read, and what many have admitted here with various nuances is that since the multiverse is not currently verifiable I have no reason to place that much belief into it. I have also not had any experiences with it and so I can’t even come at it anecdotally. I believe that it can go either way and that whatever is revealed it won’t undermine God. Regardless if it exists or not, the multiverse I mean. I could argue it does from the perspective that if God is beyond time then there must be a place beyond this universe that he can move through. I could argue that throughout scripture we see people who have visions of the future of this universe and so there must be more to this one than we can imagine. I can also argue that if there is a place that the spirits of the dead, and angels and demons go to then there must be another universe, or either it’s part of this universe and tucked away where we don’t know where it is. So I could easily be inspired by scripture if it exists and I can easily work around it if it does not.

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