How does one “keep away from politics” when talking about praying for a country [i.e. Ukraine] whose “crises of the moment” are due, not to “natural phenomena”, such as earthquakes or climate change or the weather, but are due to politics?
I agree. I guess we can also say that he would have no power if it were not for others who think he has the solution to their problems. The truly powerful despots convince people that they are serving them.
This sure reminds me of the Cold War.
Klax
(The only thing that matters is faith expressed in love.)
102
In every sense it’s about distance, but above all ethnic, cultural, historical, political, religious. How many boxes are ticked. We’re that kind of monkey.
A refugee from Ethiopia was almost bitter about the warm welcome that was given to refugees from Ukraine. He said that nobody has said ‘welcome’ to him, although he feels that he is in a comparable situation than the refugees coming from Ukraine.
But to be honest, this is a rare, secular finding of welcoming refugees. It’s not a Christian movement for the Ukraine, I think. The church in Russia is strongly pro the Russian movement. War is heartbreaking in any case.
On the other hand, as I am sure you know, there are many, many Christian movements in favor of not only refugees, but also of caring for the poor elsewhere–more than any other NGO (religious or not), by far. My uncle’s church supported a family of Iraqi interpreters and their little girl (Muslims), and we often ate with them at my grandma’s house for Thanksgiving and Christmas. As children we knew immigrants from Vietnam supported by a church.
At the very least, no one can ever say they are 100% pure or right.
I’m interested more and more in Christian pacifism.
Thanks.
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Klax
(The only thing that matters is faith expressed in love.)
108
No it’s perfectly natural. This is evolved morality working as it should and always does. He is not in a comparable situation by multiple unticked boxes.
Most believers I know show love towards all people, including refugees. Some are against immigration, mostly persons supporting populist parties. Even these persons show love towards refugees they learn to know, so it is not being against individuals. My guess is that the negative attitude stems from fear.
Immigration is a nasty problem in the sense that we should help these people but a policy of open doors would easily lead to a situation where the number of immigrants exceeds the number of citizens. Especially in a situation where the proportion of retired persons increases and puts financial stress on the public economy, a large amount of immigrants may shift the balance between taxes and the need of public economic support towards a catastrophic direction.
A common solution to this problem is to support refugees as close to their homes as possible. Most refugees would not like to leave their home and would like to return as soon as possible. If we send support to these people where they are, it might be a win-win situation. The suffering get the help they need and stay in the neighborhood of their home, instead of being unwanted immigrants far from their home.
Personally, I believe that praying for peace and praying for these people helps these people as much as sending money. I believe that our heavenly Father listens to the prayers of His children through Jesus. He can change the situations in ways we could not even imagine, both at the level of nations and individuals. This is of course a matter of faith - I believe that He listens and acts, therefore I pray.
2 Likes
Klax
(The only thing that matters is faith expressed in love.)
111
Well aye Randy. If Jesus were not God incarnate, then the arc of His morality would still be the greatest individually based contribution to the development of morality. Which is unquantifiably insignificant in Russian culture, especially church.
Morality is what we say it is, and objectively there is no cultural comparison with the Tigray and Ukrainian Wars. Apart from that Christianity is significant by its absence in both.
It’s true, and very sad. Ukrainian refugees have been treated with overwhelming love by the Polish, but refugees from the Middle East and African are treated with brutality.
In a war, there are people praying for the victory of both sides. Both sides think they are on the ‘right’ side of the conflict. What could be a united prayer is to pray for peace.
I read an interview of a Russian writer, Viktor Jerofejev. He told that the ‘realities’ (or national narratives) have diverged for centuries between the west and Russia. He said that going over the border to Russia is like jumping from one planet to another. What is seen as ‘light’ and ‘darkness’ is the opposite in these planets. He claimed that the west analyses the situation in a superficial way, does not understand the differences between these worlds. He assumed that most Russians support Putin because of this difference. They think that Putin may be a ‘bad boy’ (gopnik) but he is fighting for the light, against the forces of darkness. In the west, the viewpoint is naturally the opposite.
It is likely that many in Russia are praying for the rapid victory of Russia in this ‘special military operation’. Yet, I hope we all pray for peace.
Sad that our worldviews are often so far from each others. It is very good that God decides what He will do, not us or those having an opposite viewpoint.