Why couldn't God have made the universe instantaneously?


#62

Walking is a learned behavior that requires remembering what you learned. So if Adam was created walking then God planted false memories in his head.


#63

Just like so many other things. What about talking. A child must be exposed to language (spoken or otherwise) or he will never learn to speak properly. So what language did Adam speak and exactly how did he learn it? I mean, he never heard other people speaking, did he?


(Laura) #64

Maybe the line that’s being drawn here is between mere abilities vs. actual memories. As in, God could have given Adam the ability to speak, but it would be a different matter if he also had memories in his head of having conversations with those he’d never actually spoken with (similar to how fossils in the earth are not just a generic “appearance of age,” they are records of a very specific history). I’m not arguing whether God actually did it that way, but it does seem that there’s something of a difference there.


#65

We learn to speak (or sign) from other humans. And that’s how we learn vocabulary, syntax, etc. How do you speak if you don’t have a language/vocabulary?


(Laura) #66

Well, we wouldn’t, ordinarily. I just don’t think it would necessarily be deceitful for God to give the first humans abilities they hadn’t learned the traditional way since (if that’s how it happened) he also gave them bodies – no sense having an ability-less body.


(Mervin Bitikofer) #67

Can you imagine a specially created grown Adam and Eve trying to raise their children? “I’d love to give you some advice about these awkward teenage years you’re going through, Cain and Abel – but I was never a teenager or a child. I asked God why I couldn’t remember anything or if I was just having amnesia or something; and his only response was to mumble something under his breath about thinking he should give me some memories but that some folks in the future were going to accuse him of being a liar if he did. It’s all over my head. Good luck with everything! At least there are no girls around for you to be getting in trouble with. … Speaking of which are there supposed to be any more coming along ever? I’m a bit confused myself boys. Go talk to your mother about all this.”

[with edit]


(Phil) #68

That would be strange, just looking at a newborn. Why is it’s head so big? Why can’t it walk, all the other newborn animals are walking in the first day or so. Do you think it is normal? It just lays there and screams.


(Mervin Bitikofer) #69

Maybe “pre-fall” babies came out walking and talking and changing their own fig leaves.


#70

LOL!  


(Randy) #71

Oh that is hilarious!


#72

You mean pre-loading a human brain with language he has never heard? That’s a trick.


(Jay Johnson) #73

Had to look up IIUC. Haha. I was thinking along the lines that it would be deceptive to Adam, not to us or outside observers. Both he and Eve truly would have to have fake memories just to communicate. If Adam should try to point at something, for instance, how would Eve know what such a gesture meant without having observed it before? For that matter, Adam would first have to figure out how to draw Eve’s attention to a thing, since he never would have observed that simple communication gesture, either. All of these basic things that we take for granted would have to be invented from scratch by two individuals or else implanted in their minds by God as false memories. These don’t have to be memories of a specific event, such as receiving an orange and yellow car. You and I don’t remember the specific day we learned how to point or form a question, but without those experiences stored somewhere in the memory banks, God would have to implant them in the minds of Adam and Eve.

Now, the second problem appears. As far as Adam and Eve know, children are born with instinctual knowledge of almost everything that must be learned in childhood, including how to walk and talk. How would they have known that they must teach these things, or how to teach these things?

It’s really not a question of God’s power. He certainly could have created two people like this. But he also would have had to assign a host of angels as full-time tutors for Adam and Eve and their offspring to survive.


(Mervin Bitikofer) #74

This raises an interesting question which I could just look up an answer for, but I’ll ask it here as discussion fodder: are human babies the only ones that do that? Do Chimpanzee or Gorilla babies put up a good noisy fuss ever? And are they all as helpless as human babies at birth? I.e. – do humans occupy the “bottom pinnacle” of being more helpless at birth than every other mammal on the planet?


(Jay Johnson) #75

Easy one first – we require far longer to mature, thanks to those big brains, but I don’t think we would qualify as the most helpless mammals at birth. On your first question, I don’t know about the noise, but among orangutans, gorillas, chimpanzees and bonobos, mothers are the only ones to hold and nurse infants due to fear of kidnapping by other females or infanticide by males. Along with sexual division of labor, the early weaning of human infants allowed others to share food and care for them. Consequently, human females can reproduce about twice as fast as the great apes.


(Phil) #76

And of course marsupials are very immature but hang out in the pouch for a long time, sort of like millennials :face_with_thermometer:


#77

Good one. 


#78

When Adam was poofed into existence, was he found standing, sitting, or lying down? Did he have muscles and the balance required for walking? How did he realize he was bipedal and should walk upright?


#79

He had to be standing up. Chairs weren’t invented yet.

And where did he come up with the knowledge he needed to create names for all of the animals?


(Mervin Bitikofer) #80

I think the movie that I saw that scene in showed him lying down – just where God would have finished molding him out of clay. I suppose you don’t want your clay sculpture in some unstable upright position while the clay is still wet.


#81

God made him name the animals. Seems a tall order.
I suppose the names were devised using only the phonemes of his artificial language he had never heard being spoken.