We know that continents have moved a lot. In the framework of the bible, when could this have occurred? I will state my opinion. I think that some of the mountain building and movement was when God separated the land from waters in the beginning. I also think that a lot more movement happened after this time. In particular, my educated guess is that a rapid separation of continents happened after the flood (over a century later) The breaking up of the big landmass that some in science call Pangaea (and various names) included. Putting the scientific reasons aside (a big debate could take place as to why it seems impossible by normal physics due to heat and etc) the thread I hope would be a discussion of when the best fit biblically would be. I know Walt Brown theorized that it was the early stage of the flood. So, what do you think? One interesting point also is that the bible tells us that once again in the future, a massive shift will take place. Every island will move from where it is…etc.
Psalm 104:5
He set the earth on its foundations;
it can never be moved.
Since He will arise to shake the earth, and all mountains will crumble and all towers fall, and every island flee from it’s place and a greater earth quaking than was ever known before in history, (and we can assume that there was great shaking when continents moved rapidly apart) God is not talking about the planet not physically moving. It also orbits of course. Thank heaven we have lots of verses for context in Scripture to be able to set things in order and understand.
We also know that continents did separate from science. So the question is not if, but when. My opinion as mentioned is that it was after the flood. That allows man and animals to get all around the world and explains things like why wombats are down under.
It would also explain commonalities in buildings like pyramids etc. It would also make sense that if being together was the original state and plan for earth, that it would get back together in the end. Rev 6:14 says “..every mountain and island were moved out of their places” The planet itself though, of course will still be here.
Well, if we are talking science, Pangea started to break up 200 million years ago.
As far as scripture goes, by all means, reference chapter and verse telling of plate tectonics.
Opinions are free. Go nuts.
The date part is false science and belief based. But evidence does show that a break up did happen sometime. So, from a bible perspective where could it fit in?
I have to admit that I don’t understand your reasons for this thread.
You are entitled to believe what you want regarding science and the Bible. But then what evidence are you referring to?
If you are saying that scientific evidence shows a break up of the continents, then you admit the validity of scientific research.
If you are saying that biblical evidence shows a break up, then you already have the answer you want.
If you are trying to fit scientific evidence into the biblical story, I think that’s a bad way to read the Bible. For example, I believe the Bible is true but I don’t believe it is comprehensive. It may simply be that the Bible doesn’t talk about continental movement; just as it doesn’t talk about aeroplanes, computers, New Zealand or lasagne.
So what is your goal here?
The date part and the movement part are (partly) based on the same foundation, and they give matching results that can be confirmed by high school maths. Rejecting one but not the other is not only inconsistent, but leads to asking why that maths works if the date is wrong.
No, it doesn’t - that’s part of an allegorical vision.
Have you actually read the bible?
I think you’d find more interest on YEC discussion boards. Maybe contact the people here: https://newcreation.blog/
Or find a group on Reddit.
Some millions of years in the future, the tectonic motion presently pulling East Africa from the rest of Africa along the Great Rift Valley will open enough to infill with sea water, so that will be a new separation of continents. When did the separation and realignment of continents happen? -It is an ongoing and continuous process. Too slow to casually notice, but easily within accurate instrumental measurement range and typical of tectonic motion, the movement amounts to a few millimeters to a couple of centimeters per year, often likened to the rate of fingernail growth. Obviously, for the spreading of the Atlantic basin, that translates into a long time.
For a perspective from Biblical lands, @Joel_Duff has put out an excellent in depth series of videos on the geological history of Dead Sea, which is part of the plate complex involved with the Great Rift. This includes discussion of the Biblical history of the area which is incompatible with a young earth interpretation.
Why accept this from science, which by the way comes from the ages assigned to the various parts, and not accept the age?
Given you are asking this question I assume you haven’t found any place in the Bible that would answer the question. So why are you trying to add to the Bible to come up with an answer? Just accept it as an undocumented miracle and move on.
Are you asking what evidence exists for a breakup of a supercontinent? If so, I think there is fossil evidence both of plants and animals. Here is an example “Wegener pointed out that the outline, the geomorphology (rocks and landforms), and the climate belts of eastern South America were similar to those of the southwestern coast of Africa. He also argued that fossils of certain plants and animals appeared on both of these continents—and that while they were alive these organisms couldn’t have traversed the width of the South Atlantic that currently separates the two continents. So, logic suggested that South America and Africa had once been part of the same landmass. Wegener concluded that South America and Africa (as well as others) had been connected to one another, possibly through land bridges, some 250 million years ago. He also believed that Pangea had lasted through most of Earth’s history. Wegener relied on the work of Austrian geologist Eduard Suess, who (although he was a big proponent of the existence of sinking continents) first developed the concept of Gondwanaland—a supercontinent lasting from 600 million to 180 million years ago and made up of present-day Africa, South America, Australia, India, and Antarctica. Suess spotted rock formations in India that compared well in terms of age and composition with similar formations across various Southern Hemisphere continents. Wegener used Seuss’s work to support his own continental drift hypothesis and considered Gondwanaland to be the southern half of Pangea.” ..“Developments in rock and mineral dating, sonar, and geophysics ultimately vindicated Wegener. The rock formations of eastern North America, Western Europe, and northwestern Africa were later found to have a common origin, and they overlapped in time with the presence of Gondwanaland. Together, these discoveries supported the existence of Pangea. In addition, evidence supporting continental drift mounted during the 20th century, and scientists described a mechanism that seemed to explain continental movement by the 1960s, which was folded into the modern theory of plate tectonics…”
The moving continents are science and measured. The fossils are known. Etc. The aspects from science that are belief based, such as dates however, must be viewed in that context. So no, it is not a matter of ‘accepting science’ or not. It is a matter of accepting what is actually known.
As for the bible where do you think it refers to the separation exactly so that ‘we already have’ some answer? It is good to accept facts and reality, and it is good to know the bible supports that in history.
Firstly, it was not plate tectonics that caused the rapid separation of continents. The slight movements we see today are likely small residual movements of a much greater event in the past. As for the dream dates, this is not really a thread for other religious views. The dates are 100% belief based. Literally.
Now as to verses in the bible that tell of a separation, that is easy. At the time of Babel God separated nations! Divided them. In fact it says the earth was divided!
False. The movement part is measurable and we can say how many milometers a mass moves each year. The dream dates are fiction and faith based entirely. 100%. It is wise to be able to separate what is actually known and actual science and what is godless speculation.
Your claim that references to God shaking the earth and a great earthquake and towers falling and mountains being levelled and cities falling and Islands all moving from where they are etc are all ‘allegorical’ is noted. Tell us what else we can wave away calling is allegorical will you? heaven? new Jerusalem? Adam and Eve? The return and rule of Christ? etc etc
I am interested in truth and His word. Whether some unbelievers want to wave that away with three letter acronyms, maybe find a forum that suits your passion. Tks
The current rate of movement is slow. That cannot form a basis for prophesy about millions of years in the future…or past. The actual times can be derived from the record the creator gave us. Looking at early history, we also can find out that no super worldwide sudden continental movement happened in recorded history of man (that I am aware of)
So we have the basics. We know that the major moves happened after Creation. Furthermore we can look at the pre history Scripture of the world before the flood. (that predates Egypt and all kingdoms in history) There was no rapid major worldwide movement then. So now we can establish that the great separation must have happened after that pre flood world time So, the timeframe is quite narrow. We can also eliminate the time after Babel when major nation states and peoples started to form. We can then eliminate recorded history after Babel. That leaves a small time period in between the pre flood world, and the time after the tower of Babel and before written history came to exist.
As mentioned we can separate fact from belief based theory. Assigning belief based ‘ages’ to an actual event does not make the dream dates real. We should know the difference.
Yes, the bible tells us this. Gen 10:25 Two sons were born to Eber: One was named Peleg, because in his time the earth was divided; his brother was named Joktan
One example of biblical speculation on this matter is here " The concept that biblical Pangaea existed until the time of Peleg provides a satisfying framework for understanding several mysteries of early earth history. For one thing, it allows for a few hundred years of relatively easy human migration following Babel to widely separated places, without resorting to hypothetical land bridges or sophisticated ocean navigation knowledge by the first few generations following the Flood. (Such knowledge does not seem likely to have been possessed by the early, land-locked inhabitants of Mesopotamia.) A satisfying answer is also given to the question of how marsupials could find a home in Australia following the Flood – they just walked there! Isolated continents and impassibly high mountains did not exist at that early time, only developing in succeeding centuries as continued post-Flood earth turmoil and the Ice Age wrought geological change on a grand scale. The resulting geographical isolation led, via inbreeding and selective pressures imposed by different environments, to the development of the various races of human beings, as well as providing safe havens from predators for various types of vulnerable animals, like the Dodo birds." Of Peleg And Pangaea | Associates For Biblical Research
Now I would probably not agree with the details in that link perhaps completely. But it shows there are many believers that feel that the event was in the time of Peleg.
What makes you call them “dream dates”?
They are fiction. Made up, Faith based. Anti bible. Not real. They use this physical present world and processes (like radioactive decay) to assign ages to things. That ignores creation that made all things exist to begin with, as well as assumes that this physical present world laws and processes have not only always existed, but are responsible for all we see.
So it is well established that plate tectonics and the associated movement of land masses has been continuous over hundreds of millions of years. A vivid demonstration of this is the Hawaiian - Emperor Seamount chain, which formed over one hundred islands, reefs, atolls, and seamounts, which stretch over 5000 kilometers. They were created in succession by a tectonic conveyor over a hotspot, and the matching of radiometric dating, tectonic rates of movement, volumes of basalt, and progressive stages of erosion plainly observed from the Big Island and on up the chain, are consistent and incontrovertible. Although supported by scientific analysis, anybody would have to be blind not to recognize the pattern just from looking at it.
Christian geologist Lorence Collins wrote up an essay reviewing the several independent lines of evidence establishing the geological timeframes and countering YEC misinformation. @Joel_Duff has an article Smoking Gun Evidence of an Ancient Earth: GPS Data Confirms Radiometric Dating, proving in the sense of beyond reasonable doubt, that the chain cannot be young.
By dividing the age of the island as determined by radiometric dating by the distance it is possible to estimate the speed at which the pacific plate is moving toward the northwest. This was done more than 40 years ago. In the past decade we have been able to measure the current rate of motion via GPS technology and it is very close to 8.6 cm/year.
Biologos has produced a short video as well.
No. It is well established that there is movement now and has been for a long time. The dream dates some people tack onto this fact are meaningless and faith based. Yes, Islands were formed as a result of this movement. The question is over how much actual time and when, in reality?
Your articles rests on ratios of isotopes that exist and are portrayed as equalling great time. I like the fact parts, but take the faith based parts with a large grain of salt