"What do you think about Islam?" Postscript

You reject t\he whole Bible and you wanna talk about faith?Sure whatever.

If you feel like that really then you can go.You are accusing most of us here that we are not faithfull while you standing there speaking bs .What keeps you here if the majority of us is like that?

I believe in the meaning of the Bible, which is Christ and His faithfulness. I’ve no idea what you believe, but you don’t believe in that. Neither do the vast majority here as in the rest of Christianity.

Thats not the only meaning .

Funny man.

Which comes my question.Why are you here?To do what?If youre so dissapointed in us you can leave

No, not uninformed. The difference between writing God or Allah with a capital is respect. And certainly we can talk of God’s attributes as deities. Then we can say gods and goddesses with small print when we refer to them in number… So Shakespeare’s cool, he’s on the ball here, “a rose by any other name is still a rose” he’s saying effectively.

The Wulfila as you say means “little wolf”, but to my Greek Australian ears it sounds like “wolf pages”. Anyway, Arius didn’t win out at the Council of Nicea and I don’t know that the debate was really not political rather than purely theological.
The Greeks had for a long time debated the nature of the body of Christ and the nature of the Divinity. There were many factions broadly divided into two groups. Along comes Constantine to be emperor in the East and built his city but unlike the Romans, the Greeks were not going to worship him as a god. Worse than that, the Greeks were difficult to rule because of their differences in their Christian beliefs. They were divided. And of course Greeks love to debate. We have a saying in Greek, “where there are two Greeks there are three opinions.” It looked like there may be a split in the empire. And I had read somewhere that there were times when Constantine had to bring in the army into the church to separate the warring factions. Hence he set up the council at Nicaea and was determined to bring everyone on the same side. So the first translation by a “wolf”, was a bit much. Hence the later translations.
What is God is what matters but that is a question that cannot be answered. An element within the system cannot know the system. So you friend is right neti, neti. I was an Orthodox Hindu in the life immediately before this one in India and I can relate to “not this, not that” way of thinking.

I don’t agree with Kabbalah. “Being in itself is actually nothing but God”, is not quite right. There is the Supreme Being, God, but God created other beings, us. This is not possible to understand but I think that the notion that “we are all one”, which is also the position of the New Agers, is faulty because God gave us free will and gave us a physical reality in which to live for a time to test us. Why do that if all being was God? And clearly there are those who are opposed to God, who are God haters.
I don’t agree that God is what is, but rather that God has created all that is. If we imagine something, we have brought it into being, in a sense created it, but whatever it is, it is not who we are, nor really even a part of us as in part of our being. Our being may be of the same essence, homoousion, but it is not the same in the totality of Being.

Your personal preference of the atomic monist version of reality where the Cosmos is infinite and eternal, “where all things meet as One”, is the position of the Old Religion, i.e., pagan religion. And this was also incorporated into Christianity by some of the early Roman emperors when Rome had become Christian in its main religious identity. But I think this view, really relates to the foundation of the physical reality. All things meet within the Mind of God, because the basis of all things is information, the ideas that God chose to uphold thus creating the physical reality. I don’t think it is right to consider that all things meet as One, with the “One” being or meaning, God. But it does in some way point to God.

I can’t see the point in any lesser meaning.

Not so.
A person is either one of God’s people, in that they naturally follow the Path of Righteousness, or they are inhumane, “evil” as my late psychopathic husband called himself.

A humane person is not good, nor aims to be good, for the sake of reward, i.e., Heaven. They aim not to sin, not only because it goes against their conscience, but also because they want to be just with others. They still wouldn’t be sinning if they could and get away with it.

And the evil, inhumane person sins regardless of the fact that they end up in hell, which most don’t believe in anyway.

Once you start seeing YHWH and Allah as different or different gods, that is true polytheism.
God/YHWH is the Father Creator, the Son Savior Logos, the Spirit Love. God is One God, One in Power, One in Goodness, One in Purpose and Will. This is interpretation, which is what happened in early Christianity and in the council of Nicaea. We can only say there is only ONE God. We can’t know God.

You are seeing the superficial picture, the appearances only. There is an inhumane subculture, which I estimate is around 20% of the world’s population and they span the globe. In my late husband’s words “we know no boarders”. These people are in all walks of life, and religion is one of the key areas where they aim to cause dissention and division.

In saying that “no one has clean hands”, you are including all and sundries. Certainly a lot of good, i.e., humane people, are deceived as to do harmful acts. They are deceived by using interpretation of scripture or whatever else it is because they are in all walks of life. There is no war that can stop the problem as it stands. The only way that this can be solved is when there is a true awakening of the reality that we are facing. That will lead to the empowerment of the humane and thus the disempowerment of the inhumane. The inhumane will perish as a result. Problem solved.

It is not about one religion winning over any other religion. It is not about “our religion is the right religion and yours is not”. This is the division that is created by the inhumane, who are on all sides and appear as good Christians or good Muslims or good Buddhists or good atheists etc., etc. They rise to high positions and use that position to issue out interpretations as to deceive others, hence the divisions that appear to be those of the general masses.

All the irreconcilable differences boil down to your insistence that your religion is the right one and all else are in error.

An atheist will never abstain from the things the Christian does.You are wrong.

You cant convince me.This is your utopia not real life.As i said before no person would for example avoid having sex before marriage for example with multiple women or maybe do something else destructive.If someone assured them"NO MATTER what you do youll end up in heaven"they will continue down the very destructive path.

And the most important thing.We are all sinfull(expect babies).If you dont repent theres no heaven.So no you cant go into heaven with your sins.No one knows how God will judge you,But dont be suprised when he does so accordingly

Universalism insist that this person will go to heaven.So there you go.have fun with that inhumane person for etenrity

We all have a bit of devil and angel in us, don’t we?
I see no problem whatsoever talking about Islam and Christianity (or any other faith) on this site. Every day is God’s. Austin Fischer wrote,

People don’t abandon faith because they have doubts. People abandon faith because they think they’re not allowed to have doubts."

Doubting is using our God given intellect. In a way, it is a kind of prayer. .

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Unfortunately, he never met a botanist familiar with Genus Rosaceae. If he had, he’d have learned that there are some roses by other names that don’t smell as sweet.

Thanks but no thanks. If I want a lesson in early Greek Christianity, I’ll consult more credible sources. The reason for my reference to Wufila was to send you to someone else for an answer to your question, “Why didn’t the English translation of the bible not use the Greek word “Theos” but translated it as God?”

Must have gotten that from a Jew. 2 Jews, 3 opinions?

Why am I not surprised?

Far be it from me to teach you anything new.

Close, but no cigar,

  • 1 Corinthians 5:19. " εἰ ἐν τῇ ζωῇ ταύτῃ ἐν Χριστῷ ἠλπικότες ἐσμὲν μόνον, ἐλεεινότεροι πάντων ἀνθρώπων ἐσμέν."
  • Acts 4:12. " καὶ οὐκ ἔστιν ἐν ἄλλῳ οὐδενὶ ἡ σωτηρία, οὐδὲ γὰρ ὄνομά ἐστιν ἕτερον ὑπὸ τὸν οὐρανὸν τὸ δεδομένον ἐν ἀνθρώποις ἐν ᾧ δεῖ σωθῆναι ἡμᾶς."

poster

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But the thread was not started during Easter, as you claimed. Eastertide starts on Easter day. You don’t know what your are talking about. And yet you pretend to be knowledgeable about religion.

I agree totally. We are given an intellect to use, to explore and to come to an understanding. Doubt is a way that prompts us to look further and investigate. It is a kind of prayer.

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You are nit picking. It was started close enough to call it Easter. Cheap shot.

You are quoting Paul, and Paul, from what I see written, and from his actions, is hardly consistent with Jesus’s message.
Let’s just agree to disagree.

For the record: 1 Corinthians 15:19, in English, “If we have hoped in Christ in this life only, we are of all men most to be pitied.” and Acts 4:12, in English, “And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved.”
Your opinion, that Paul’s words and his actions are hardly consistent with Jesus’ message denigrates Paul and reveals your profound misunderstanding of Jesus’ message.

I would have suggested that before, but I figured that you would just disagree. :smile:

You are considering only out of a Christian context. An atheist can be humane, i.e., have a conscience and empathy and thus act justly. Not seeing evidence for God is not a sin. It is just that they are a young soul.

Having sex before marriage with multiple men is no big deal. Having sex with others while married and in a relationship that is monogamous, i.e., cheating on your partner is a different kettle of fish. This would be a sin. Hardly catastrophic but still a sin.

Satan got kicked out. So there is at least one that puts a spanner in the works of universalism.

The evil person has deadened their conscience. They have thus darkened their soul, taking distance from God. They have freely done this. God is not going to over-ride it. If God was to bring the evil into Heaven then why give Satan the boot?

The person who is humane is not the one that hasn’t ever done anything wrong. They are the one that admit the wrong doing, have remorse and a change of heart and want to make amends. This is the process that must be undertaken to get forgiveness for sins. Repenting as you pointed out is necessary. Without repenting, i.e., acknowledging wrong doing, having remorse and wanting to make amends there is no forgiveness. Getting washed clean in the blood of Christ, which a lot of people think will happen if they only accept Jesus as their lord and savior is where the problem lies. These people not only don’t repent, they continue doing sin and more so transgressions.

Jesus taught to do good works, to be righteous, to love others that are of the same kind (humane).
Paul set up a community in Greece and the way it was enforced leaves a lot to be desired. Both Annanias and his wife Saphra dropped dead instantly when they lied about keeping some of their own money for themselves and not giving it all to the community. The argument that is made is that they lied to the Holy Spirit, but they were talking to Peter. I doubt very much, in fact I am sure that Peter had nothing to do with this. It was orchestrated by Paul. Denigrating you say? This has all the hallmarks of murdering two people to get absolute obedience and thus control over the community that he headed. Come on!

I have faith that Jesus prophesied about ‘the narrow door’ in a parable.
 

Then Jesus went through the towns and villages, teaching as he made his way to Jerusalem. Someone asked him, “Lord, are only a few people going to be saved?”
 
He said to them, “Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to. Once the owner of the house gets up and closes the door, you will stand outside knocking and pleading, ‘Sir, open the door for us.’
 
“But he will answer, ‘I don’t know you or where you come from.’
 
“Then you will say, ‘We ate and drank with you, and you taught in our streets.’
 
“But he will reply, ‘I don’t know you or where you come from. Away from me, all you evildoers!’
 
“There will be weeping there, and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves thrown out. People will come from east and west and north and south, and will take their places at the feast in the kingdom of God. Indeed there are those who are last who will be first, and first who will be last.”

 
Luke 13:22-30

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Where I come from, two people who agree to disagree usually stop discussing stuff that reveals or leads to disagreement. Apparently, you don’t come from earth. Guess I’m going to have add you to my “Ignore” list.

Yes. It’s not just criticism; it’s biased and unfair criticism; very much like the denigration that you accused me of.

Sorry, but your Jesus is not my Jesus. Mine was crucified and resurrected,ascended, and is very real and alive.

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