The Organisational chart of Evil


(Robert Misst) #1

If the watchers are the "fallen"sons of God - a created category like angels, cherubim, seraphim, etc - do these fallen entities have an organisation chart and does Ephesian 6:12 appear to be that hierarchy or “organisational chart”?


(George Brooks) #2

@r.misst

Did the Zoroastrians have an organization chart for their evil angels?


(Tim) #3

Where does it say any of the “sons of God” are fallen? Genesis 1 gives the account of multiple created beings both male and female that fit the description of the “sons of God”. The second chapter regarding Adam was just one of these created beings. It also gives a closer look at what happened on day six, by singling out just one of them. God gave the comand on day six to multiply and have rule over the earth. The story we are given was about just one of these. The one tasked with naming the animals, and aloud seclusion in a Garden wherevhe would eventually raise a family. Each of the chapters from 2 to 5 are not in a set strict chronological order. There is a lot of overlap and intwined stories.

I am not even sure if Cain and Abel were born after the disobedience of Adam. There is an indication that Eve experienced two different types of birth. One Perhaps two with a physical body that had no pain in child birth and then when Seth was born it was the normal pregnancy we have today. For one, Cain resembled all the other humankind that were created on day six. If he had just the fallen image of Adam, then he would have stuck out, and would not have needed to be marked to identify him. Clearly the offspring of Seth would have mingled with the others. There would be some offspring that were clearly different thus as Daughters they attracted the pure line of humankind that could still be identified as "sons of God ". It was Clearly after several thousand years when it got to the point, God’s spirit a clear indication of sixth day offspring could no longer strive with effects of Adam’s sin. It was not just the fallen nature of Adam, but the willful disregard of the “sons of God” themselves that God changed the course of mankind. Nonevof the original 6th day humankind were allowed to physically enjoy earth. They did not become the angels, nor were they stricken of their full Image of God.

I would introduce the fall of Satan and the inhabitants of a sister planet at the time of the Flood. Satan had access to Adam in the Garden. Perhaps Adam himself had access to the planet controlled by Satan as part of the councel of God. That benefit was lost. Perhaps even Marduk was the secular term for Satan at that time. Whatever happened, the ANE felt they still hsd access to this part of humankind for another several thousand years. Then came the advent of religion. Personally, I think the angels and ministering spirits could be in part the third aspect of humankind. The part of us that has access to God, but only in our thoughts do we have access to this part of us. Demons are the lost part of those who do not know God, or reach a point where a human has out right rejected God. They refuse to be a connection between humans and God. Even more so if they are not immediately sent to the restong place of all the physical dead. Christ freed those who in faith knew God after Jesus rose from the dead. In Christ humans are joined and their 6th day created form goes to the place that Jesus prepared for them.

Of course there is a host of other types of “angelic” beings throughout the heavens and where God is. Probably not in the graduated circle depicted by the early church. Nor do they necessarily have to be in a fallen human form stuck in the physical universe that we are currently stuck in.


(Mervin Bitikofer) #4

Hello, Robert - and welcome to the forum.

Is your opening post here in response to any particular issue you’ve seen batted around here at Biologos? We’ll always be curious about context and what motivates the pursuit of certain lines of questioning. But of course you can share (or not share) of yourself as you will. In any case, we certainly do entertain a wide variety of philosophical and theological discussion around here, and that keeps things interesting.

That said, I’ll confess that you may encounter an overall deficit of interest here (though some can always be found eager to pursue the most convoluted theological meanderings) toward such speculation read into a single verse. It smacks of a kind of gnosticism to be obsessed with other-worldly rankings of angels or fallen beings. But perhaps you’ll share more as to why such questions fascinate you?


(system) closed #5

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