A while back I started a thread on the roles punishment and mercy when someone commits a crime. I think before I had overlooked the role that justice had in preventing further sin and ensuring that the pain of the victims was overlooked.
However, a scenario recently came up that has me pondering once again. I was listening to a podcast on the ride up to college about a former gang member who started a ministry. He says that he often thinks back on the lives he has ruined while in his gang, and says he carries that guilt even when preaching. That did make me think: he seems very apologetic for what he has done, so he seems very deserving of the mercy that Jesus provides. However, I ponder the justice aspect of what he said. I’m not 100% certain if he ever faced criminal charges for what he did but, now in a position to understand that what he previously did was wrong, what should he do? Should he turn himself in for a sentence? Pay a fine to a state?
I’ve kinda been away from the Bible for a while (flight school and college have eaten up a great deal more of time than I would wish) but I’m trying to read a few devotionals a day from Jesus’ sermon on the mount. But, until I can really get into the New Testament, I was hoping to hear your thoughts on how I should look at this situation.
Justice and forgiveness are not bedfellows. One negates the other. Justice involves paying for the crime, Jesus’ forgiveness means that He has paid for it.
However, we have an obligation to respect the civil law and rules.
Religion does not supersede civil law.
It is a moral dilema to which there is dispute over the correct viewpoint. You can argue it either way.
Probably not the most helpful response but it might get some sort of discussion going
Jesus did indicate “Sin no More”. Governments have a Method of the Department of Corrections. Being born again as a Child of "Our Father ", I know I am accountable to “Our Father” in my Consciousness. “Our Father” is the Judge when this body I live in expires and I commend My Spirit to Him. This is what has corrected my behavior as I try to stop the accepted Adult sinning.
Richard says Jesus died for all my sins, but this is only for the ones I don’t even know I’m part of by living my life. It doesn’t mean I can keep going on sinning. It does not apply to blatant SINS that I think I got away with or wasn’t punished for.
Punishment is Man’s answer to corrections, changing Your behavior by being accountable to Our Father is what can change Your behavior. The Catholic Church has The Confession Box, when I was a child I thought I could do all the sinnng I want, I’ll just go back to The Confession Box and my sins will be forgiven. Again I am doing sins I don’t even know they are sins, so how can I confess to a sin I don’t even know I’m committing.
It is a matter that everybody needs to decide with their Lord.
I have heard of several ex-criminals who confessed their crimes also to the police after becoming believers. They were sentenced to jail, some got lifetime for murders. They had a strict principle that they confessed only their own crimes, not the crimes of others, which made their confessions tolerable to their former criminal company - they were not ‘rats’.
There was a heavy price to pay for the confessions but they got also internal freedom. When we do crimes, we break against God but also against the society. When God forgives our sins, that releases us in front of God. It does not release us in front of the society. As long as the crime against the society has not been handled, we are not completely free. The secrets keep us chained and there is a fear that the crimes will be revealed some day. After the crimes have been handled and the legal punishment served, that sets the person free in relation to the society.
All sins are not legally crimes and some crimes may have ‘expired’ so that there would not be legal judgement for such old crimes. In such cases, confessing the sins to police or other authorities may be unnecessary.
It’s a good and important question. One perspective that I find helpful is the 12 step program of Alcoholics Anonymous and other similar organizations. Two of the steps deal with practical reparation:
Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.
Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
To me that pattern shows great wisdom. It recognizes that true healing includes a willingness to make right whatever we have done wrong. At the same time, it also understands that life is messy, and the extent to which we can make amends will vary significantly in different settings.
God, through Moses, he lead Israel out of Egypt. Israel was a loose confederation of families and tribes looking to God through Moses for direction. They didn’t have much government. Back in Egypt, they had structure and rules and comfort. With Moses, out in the wilderness, they were headed into a “no man’s land.” What were some of the first things that happened?
Law was given.
Judges were appointed.
Justice is a fundamental need of man. Justice is the settling of disputes. Given two men had a dispute over a goat, they could knife fight over it. They could go Hatfield’s and McCoy’s. They could take their dispute to an elder in the community, an honorable person whom they both respected. They both present their arguments. The judge makes a decision. The dispute is settled.
A gang member was involved in a drive by, and he shot an old woman or a child by accident. Later, he was arrested, put on trial, and went to jail.
In jail, he could repent and find Jesus Christ. Jesus forgives him of his sins, and he sins no more. He may still owe the community. He serves out his sentence. After he serves it out, maybe he got out early or something…he served his time. That past shouldn’t follow him around. He is a new man in Christ. In Sanctification, given he hurt someone, he may need to go apologize or make amends. That would be part of Building the Kingdom of God.
The Body of Christ is society. The Body of Christ is a community of believers. Sin in the body is like a wound. Wounds fester. They need to be treated.
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Gerhard
(Gerhard Nebe-von Caron, formerly "Marvin", Sceptic Christian)
10
I think biblically speaking a crime is a sin against two parties, thus faces two penalties. Of I rob my neighbour or destroy his tractor so he cant work for his income any more the forgiveness of Jesus does not help the neighbour to feed his family so that is not justice. However if I show repentance and return the stolen goods and change my life my sin can be forgiven by God as I showed repentance.
A lot of people use the comment that Jesus died for our sins so we have been given mercy already to excuse / justify their sin.
Prior to Jesus, all men were bound for hell. Hell is a place of the dead. Hell may be Hades or Gehenna or a number of things, and we are still getting some place. Multiple things may be correct, and there may be layers to Hell and understanding Hell.
The wages of sin are death.
When someone is baptized, they should be starting a new life in Christ. They should be seeking. Seeking the Lord with all their heart and soul and strength and mind. Given they are not seeking, they may grown comfortable and complacent, and fallen back into sin. Christians are to be vigilant.
Someone was seeking, and someone found God. The Holy Ghost is a teacher and a councilor. A man may have insight into how God judges sin. He was chastised and rebuked or came into understanding. (Hebrews 12:6)
There are layers to understanding different concepts. What context are we looking at it? God is Holy and Separate from sin. Sin separates man from God. Sanctification is a process of where someone was being made Holy, to be brought closer to God. In this context, sin was about The Soul.
If someone is lying or cheat or stealing, they may have been creating darkness. They were sowing bad seeds into society. They were sowing of the flesh. We have sin on a person or soul context. We have sin in a societal context. In the societal context…someone was failed by their dad and teachers, and didn’t know how to act. There may need to be punishment.
One big distinction is the difference between mercy or forgiveness and consequences. We may be forgiven, but still suffer the consequences of those actions here on earth. Those consequences may mean prison, or they may mean loss of trust, financial ruin, health problems, or other natural consequences. You may be forgiven for sexual immorality and be blameless before God, but still have to raise the child resulting from it, or get cancer from the STD you picked up in the process, or lose your marriage.