Response plz?: When "evening and morning" are used with a day in Genesis it implies 24 hours


(Ryan weatherly) #61

I can’t speak as to why YEC s object to most things , but I have never been able to accept 6 literal days based on the account itself …
How does God witness ( God saw it was good )
Days , signs , seasons and years in one 24 hour day .
And I do accept that God may have given him visions , dreams , or information , if not Moses , then whoever Moses got it from …
Daniel was given the ability to understand dreams …
Jacob gets a vision about selecting traits …
Bruno claimed to get a vision about the solar system… .
…I’m no scholar , I just thought I would ask if anyone had considered that the days in question might not be referring to creating , but informing Moses …


(Phil) #62

In any case , this blog published today is interesting in that it discusses the difference in oral and written communication, and ultimately I think most agree the Genesis story was orally transmitted for much of its time.


(Tom Larkin) #63

I have always speculated that creation was revealed over a 7 day period, and it is documented from the point of view of to whom it was revealed.


(Tom Larkin) #64

Gerald Schroeder, in his book “Genesis and the Big Bang” implies the Hebrew words “erev” (evening) and “bocar” (morning) imply more about “disorder” and “order”, respectively, based on the root meanings of “erev” and “bocar”.

לילה טוב


(Luca) #65

You have to also consider what the actual earth tells us about itself. i.e. science.


(John Warren) #66

The Earth doesn’t tell us anything about itself. We make it say stuff.


(Luca) #67

Are you going to bring up the 2 lenses looking at the same evidence thing?
But i have to disagree with this. If you look at the world in a honest way. You will find that the earth “Tells” you what it’s been through. I don’t know why i have gone with telling lol. But in short the evidence does not support YEC.

(If you aren’t YEC my apologies.)


(Chris Falter) #68

I saw a baby yesterday who I estimated to be about 3 months old, based on her size and behavior. Was my reasoning valid? You have kids, John, so I’m pretty sure that you, too, can look at a child and make at least a fairly accurate estimate of his or her age.

A coroner can estimate how long someone has been dead by measuring the temperature of the body, along with other parameters such as the ambient temperature and humidity.

Geophysicists can do the same thing with certain kinds of rocks. Their evidence about the rocks’ ages are not size, behavior, temperature, or humidity, though. Instead, their evidence is the isotopic composition of certain elements in the rock. They apply rigorous isochronic techniques that are solidly founded on the laws of physics to derive their estimates.

Grace and peace,
Chris


(Christy Hemphill) #69

Do you believe things in nature can be accurately measured?


(Marshall Janzen) #70

I think it’s because that phrase doesn’t define the day but marks the passing of the night. It’s “and there was evening and there was morning,” two consecutive events after the creative activity of each day. It shows that nothing happens between evening and morning; everything happens between morning and evening.

In other words, all of God’s creative work happens during the day, in the light. Now why would the account be so adamant that God doesn’t work at night and God takes the seventh day off to rest? Perhaps because the timeframe of the account is a template for human labourers more than a glimpse into the actual mechanics of how God created our universe.


(Christy Hemphill) #71

So I hear you saying that since it is well into evening, I should definitely stop working and chill on BioLogos and Facebook. It’s only biblical. :wink:


(John Warren) #72

Many people look at the world and see thousands of years. Diamonds and rock strata have too much Carbon 14 for an old Earth, the oceans have not enough minerals for an old Earth, minerals have too much helium. Many fossil bones dated millions of years are hardly mineralized. DNA is found in bacteria supposedly dated 10s to 100s of millions of years old. For example.

I’ve seen my kid grow up. No one saw 100s of millions of years of evolution happen.

Yes, it all depends on the lens you’re using. All historical science affirms the consequent.


#73

And there was evening and morning, one day. For this reason Jews start a new day in the evening at sundown. If you’ve ever worked with orthodox Jews, you know they have to leave work before sundown on Friday, because the Saturday Sabbath actually starts Friday at sundown. The holidays work the same way.


(Phil) #74

While all the things you listed have been addressed many times, this often repeated snippet is the one that really bugs me because it is such a misrepresentation by YEG science types who really should (and really do) know better. The extremely small amounts of carbon 14 in diamonds etc. is so small that it may well just be contaminants or from a yet poorly understood source, and has no effect or impact on Carbon 14 dating in general, which is extremely well documented and accurate within the limits the dating itself gives. Sort of like the amount of rat hair in your Snickers bar. There is some there, but it doesn’t affect the taste. Unless you think about it.


(George Brooks) #75

@Jpm and @Christy

I believe the good Rabbis of the ancient world answered this. In a life that is constantly cycling between darkness and light … the first of all these days must have been darkness! Which, inescapably makes the light the second part of a day.

And this is why the Sabbath starts at dusk, rather than at Sunrise.


(Phil) #76

Interesting George, never knew that. Now, that is also consistent with when Genesis was put into its final form.
Of course, then why is morning mentioned as though it is part of the bookend of the day, rather than being mid-day? Still sort of a funny way to put it, except at a literary device, which I lean toward.


#77

Hahahaha, nice one!


#78

It can’t tell us that an ancient lake bed was in a certain place? Can’t tell us that glaciers once covered most of the US?


(Matthew Pevarnik) #79

Do you want to discuss each one of these? Or any one of these? Each of these topics could/should be a separate thread, otherwise this appears similar to what’s called a Gish gallop. These are all very interesting topics for sure, but these topics might represent 0.001% of all the evidence we have of the old earth. It is very fascinating to me that the other 99.999% of evidence is just dismissed by the young earth community.

I do highly recommend for anyone interested (not necessarily yourself @John_Warren unless you want) @jammycakes’s extensive well done examination of the top 10 claims for a young earth:


(John Warren) #80

I’ll go one further. The worldwide deposit of sedimentary rock full of fossils can tell us that it was once covered in a worldwide watery cataclysm.