Response plz?: When "evening and morning" are used with a day in Genesis it implies 24 hours


(George Brooks) #41

@Lynn_Munter,

Oh, about the Morning Star/Evening Star references … assuming someone else hasn’t explained it already…

these are the morning and evening appearances of the “walking star” Venus. Venus frequently appeared just before the rising sun and/or around the time of the setting sun. (Though I confess I’m not as clear on the evening timing as I am on the morning timing.)

In Christian tradition, Venus could be referred to as a light bearer, because it preceded the rising sun… just as the Baptist was to precede the Savior.


(Phil) #42

Venus is up in the evening this time of year, but of course varies depending on where it and Earth are in their orbits. Jupiter can be seen in early morning along at present Saturn and Mars, though I suspect the moon is too bright to see any but Jupiter. At times Jupiter can be almost as bright as Venus. If you live in an area where you can see the stars at night, an app like Star Walk is sort of fun to keep up with things, helps you see " your place in the universe." Interesting to visualize the orbits of the visualized planets, and their relative locations.


(John Warren) #43

You’ll have a harder time with your anything goes hermeneutic.


(John Warren) #44

Genesis doesn’t imply a flat Earth.


(John Warren) #45

Okay. You can mark days as figurative if you want. But only one of us will be right.


(Christy Hemphill) #46

I believe the spirit of God was hovering, not standing. :wink:


(Christy Hemphill) #47

It makes me so happy to see someone talking coherently and correctly about literal and figurative senses of words and how literal senses of words can be used as part of figurative passages.


(Dennis Venema) #48

I sometimes ask folks if they think The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe is a true story. It makes for a good conversation, usually.


(Christy Hemphill) #49

That would be interesting to get to people’s ideas about the relationship between truth and allegory. But I don’t think the first part of Genesis is an allegory. It’s something else.


(Dennis Venema) #50

I don’t think it’s allegory either, so it’s not a perfect parallel.

If someone outside of our culture or time read TLTW&TW, though, they might conclude that it is “straight history” if they didn’t have the wider context.


#51

You mean it’s not straight history?


#52

People who want to know more about Genesis would benefit from Denis Lamoureux’s Science and Religious course. He’s an expert on the early chapters of Genesis, and the course has a whole section on Genesis 1-11.
Here’s the link: Science and Religion 101


(Ryan weatherly) #53

Yep , That was my point .
The creation account is from an earth bound perspective …


(Phil) #54

Good explanation of what literal can mean, Christy and Dennis. That helps clarify it in my own head.
But back to the original query, we define a day in our modern minds as 24 hours, and that is derived ultimately as one revolution of the earth about its axis in respect to the sun. The original audience would find that jibberish, and though they might define a day as daylight until dusk, would find 24 hours a meaningless convention. In fact, verse 5 seems to imply the daylight time period made up the day. If you asked the ancient audience how long the day lasted, I suspect they would say something like, “until night.”


(Christy Hemphill) #55

Right. Narrative doesn’t equal literal history.

Another thing that is interesting to bring up is if I quote Aslan saying something true to support a theological claim I am making or allude to events in Narnia to make a point, does that imply that I think Aslan was a historical figure and Narnia is a real country. People seem to assume that because Jesus referred to Jonah or alluded to Adam and Eve that means Jesus believed they were historical individuals.


(Ryan weatherly) #56

Has no one thought that
This may have been 6 days of visions given to Moses ?
And that it never meant to be 6 days of God creating , but 6 days of God informing Moses about creation


(Christy Hemphill) #57

Why is it “evening and morning” instead of “morning and evening”?


(Christy Hemphill) #58

That is still unnecessarily concordist. And requires you to accept that Genesis was dictated to Moses by God, and Moses being the “author” of all of Genesis has it’s own problems. What’s so hard about the framework view and the week being a literary structure? I don’t understand what YEC objections would be to that interpretation.


(Phil) #59

True that Jesus could quote a truth coming from the mouth of a fictional character. The issue of whether he thought them fictional would be a separate but irrelevant issue to the truth expressed. Sort of like in the parable with the beggar Lazarus speaking from the bosom of Abraham, whether this is a true representation of the afterlife is not relevant to the lesson taught in the parable.


(Phil) #60

Good question. I was wondering that too. Perhaps the day ends at morning of the next day, and includes the night then.