NDE’S, Heaven and Hell Visitations, Faith Healing, Exorcisms, Miracles, and more

Seriously? Never heard that one before. Got a citation? Does it say anything about acupuncture?

Luke 9:38-42

Where does it say that?

I would put limited trust in websites generally; some are sound but many need help, even coming from relatively good sources (speaking as a paleontologist and taxonomist about sites in my field).

Kitchen, K.A. On the reliability of the Old Testament. Eerdmans, 2003. 662 pages, not a light read, though his sense of humor peeks through when there’s a chance.

He discusses the stela of Merenptah, from the 5th year of his reign, which correlates to 1209-1208 BC, in which Merenptah claims to have wiped out Israel. Allowing for conventional hyperbole, this indicates that Egyptian forces defeated some group identified as Israelites around at that time.

A careful reading of Joshua and Judges shows that the initial settlement is essentially in the central hill country, not a sweeping replacement of the previous population.

No Mesopotamian powers are involved in Canaan at the time of the Exodus, so no documentation can be expected from there. The Hittite Empire was crumbling, and likewise not paying attention to Canaan. Egypt exerted nominal control over the area, but we have only sparse references, primarily to the actually profitable coastal areas. Occasional military expeditions by Pharaohs lead to mention of Edom and Moab, and the Amarna letters give a brief glimpse of the warring among the Canaanite city-states, each trying to get Egyptian support (or at least non-opposition to their local schemes) and facing the problem of less settled raiders.

Non-Israelite Personal Names in the Book of Joshua on JSTOR is one reference on how the names given in Joshua fit culturally with the right time and place.

The occasional current headline highlights the limits to what can be excavated - on the one hand, there are accusations that Israeli archaeologists have undermined Palestinian houses; conversely, that the recent construction and renovation at the Dome of the Rock failed to make proper archaeological investigation. (The problem is exacerbated by the politicizing of archaeology - traces or lack thereof of Jewish or Muslim presence get invoked as supporting modern territorial claims.) Even if there weren’t people living on top of sites of interest, there are the limits imposed by time and money available for archaeology and the cumulative effects of erosion and of subsequent human activity, whether violent destruction or merely clearing away old debris to better make space for an up-to-date building (in the perception of the people of that day).

Although confident identification of a place name has its challenges, the identifiable places in the Exodus narrative are generally supported as having contemporary occupation. More generally, the narrative is definitely set in the landscape of northeastern Egypt, Sinai, and the vicinity of Israel.

Finkelestein has done much of the work documenting the abrupt population increase in the central highlands with the transition from Late Bronze to Early Iron Age (for example, Finkelstein, I. 1988. The Land of Ephraim Survey 1980-1987: Preliminary Report. Tel Aviv. September 1988, Issue 2, p. 117 – 183.), though he promoted the idea that these were just locals, not new arrivals.

Hess, R. S. 1993. Early Israel in Canaan: A Survey of Recent Evidence and Interpretations. Palestine Exploration Quarterly, 125(2):25-142. https://doi.org/10.1179/peq.1993.125.2.125 is among the references on the distinctly lower popularity of pork in certain regions in the early Iron Age period.

From a story which mentions casting out a demon you infer Christians may only ever resort to exorcism? I guess that is what it means to you but you’d have to do a whole lot more justifying to get an open minded reader to agree with you.

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Well Christians are followers of Jesus that means they do whatever he tells them to do, and he says to his followers that you will cast out demons, so no doctor is needed here, unless Jesus was just another liar.

There are many verses that show us that doctors are not necessary, only faith healings and exorcisms, and this is all said no done by the man you follow: MT 4:23-24, 9:32-33, 12:22, 17:14-18, MK 1:23-26, 32-34, 5:2-16, 9:17-29, 16:9, LK 11:14, 4:33-35, 8:2, 27-36, 9:38-42, AC 8:7, 16:16-18

I’m not seeing it. Remember, I said an open minded reader. You make a whole lot of unsupported assumptions.

Luke 9:38-42

King James Version

38 And, behold, a man of the company cried out, saying, Master, I beseech thee, look upon my son: for he is mine only child.

39 And, lo, a spirit taketh him, and he suddenly crieth out; and it teareth him that he foameth again, and bruising him hardly departeth from him.

40 And I besought thy disciples to cast him out; and they could not.

41 And Jesus answering said, O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you, and suffer you? Bring thy son hither.

42 And as he was yet a coming, the devil threw him down, and tare him. And Jesus rebuked the unclean spirit, and healed the child, and delivered him again to his father.

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If this happened today it would be seen as mental illness like epilepsy and is treatable with medication, not this, and when people try this today it doesn’t work. And the Bible by the way is strongly against any kind of open mindedness.

If Christians aren’t supposed to go to doctors, how do you explain all the hospitals founded by Christian denominations? There are many Catholic hospitals, and also many others, such as NY Presbyterian in the big apple, Episcopal Hospital in Philadelphia, PA, just to name a few.

Saint Luke is the patron saint of doctors, because tradition holds that he was a doctor.

Are you familiar with the PBS show “Call the Midwife”? It’s a true story–based on an order of Anglican nuns who delivered the babies of poor women on London’s East End. Before the National Health Service these women had nowhere to turn.

Look up the origins of the word hospital. Where do you suppose it came from?

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You make a good point.

I’m sorry it that has been your experience. While the bulk of my experience in RL has been with close minded Christians I’ve had a much better experience here. It definitely doesn’t have to be that way. Also, from my time on atheist forums, I can tell you close mindedness isn’t too hard to find. I’m not a Christian myself but neither am I anti-religion.

I think all any of us can do is decide how we want to be, what kind of world we want to contribute to. Good luck, it isn’t always easy.

Okay, thanks. I didn’t find the answers here, but someone recommend me scholars so I will check them out.

Greetings and welcome. I’m confused. Wasn’t Luke a doctor? I’m a Christian family doc. I do believe God can use medicine to His will. Paul not only healed, but also advised his friend to use a little wine for his stomach’s sake. Thanks.

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If Paul could heal, then anyone can. Also this healing is completely unscientific so obviously he didn’t heal, when preachers try that today, people die without getting proper medical attention.

I’m confused. Can you clarify? Thanks. With God’s power, yes, but it seems to me that Jesus accepted Luke (and medicine), and Paul even encouraged medicine. So, it seems that the Bible is ok with medicine. Or am I on the wrong track? Thanks.

With God’s power? We don’t see that kind of power today. Remember the notorious Benny Hinn? Well Jesus says that we can do miracles, faith healings, exorcisms, etc. And with the fact that medicine is not perfect, then Jesus who all Christians follow, say to do exorcism and faith healing, and we have to obey him if Christians are true to their faith.

Are you saying, then, that it is not possible to do this, but God commands it? I do think that God accommodated to the understanding of the time. He allowed people to believe that some of this was demons, and didn’t contradict them, but cured them, anyway. Epilepsy and even psychogenic seizures do respond to medicine well. And if there is a true thing that God wants us to do, then you may be sure we can do it. Thank God. Blessings.

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Again, I have heard this explains all the anti science stuff in the Bible, but there is no proof. There is no indication in the text that what you said is the correct understanding. And the context states that it was not medicinal cure, rather, Jesus told the demon to come out, but there are no such things as demons.

You’re right; I think that we can say that Jesus cured the man. The Bible also works with accommodation else where, as when it says that the sun rises. I use that with my children, and wait till they are older to explain that the earth turns toward the sun. So, that does show up elsewhere.

but Jesus was not against medicine; nor was Paul. We can do whatever we can, to heal whoever we can. In fact, that’s serving our fellow people–something John says is serving Christ himself. What do you think? Thanks.

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