More on Tony's beliefs

Faith & Science Conversation
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@Find_My_Way

How were Noah, Abraham, Moses, etc., able to begin a relationship with God then? At that point in history there was no biblical evidence for a personal God.

Strictly with the Bible ONLY we cannot get to the TRUE facts about REALITY as evidenced by discussion on your thread—Demon Possession in 2016. Other forms of spirituality/occult practices are required to fill in the GAPS left open by mainstream religion. If you are knowledgeable in these matters you should be aware that natural philosophy (science) had its origins in occult practices (alchemy/astrology). Regarding the so-called other forms of spirituality—these practices are, in part, the core principles of understanding REALITY, and, in part, the core principles of understanding PROPHECY.

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God Himself intervened in their lives of course. However that does NOT happen Today. The ONLY way for a modern Human to know God is to read about Him in the Bible. There is no evidence to suggest He is doing the same in anyone’s lives Today.

Things evolve. The former is abandoned in favour of the newer, more superior form. Modern science has as much to do with ancient occult practises as I have to do with New Age religions. What do I have to do with New Age religion? I oppose it perfectly.

Modern science opposes occult nonsense just as perfectly.

The pursuit of reality can only be hindered by continuing to focus on nonsense that has been shown time and again to be total garbage. Take your occult garbage and stand outside, the smell is terrible.

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@Find_My_Way

For you to be certain of this claim you must have convincing evidence. Therefore, tell us, how did God Himself intervene in their lives so that we can be sure He is not intervening in the lives of Christians today?

The former is abandoned in favour of the newer, more superior form.
Precisely my sentiment concerning modern science’s (cosmology’s) understanding of the universe, and (psychology’s) understanding of human behavior.

You don’t seem to grasp the fact that just as Noah, Abraham, Moses, etc. developed their understanding of nature and God slowly with the passing of time, that the ancient natural philosophy advanced accordingly through the passage of time. Much of past superstitious nonsense has already been abandoned (and rightfully so) with the advancement of science over the ages. Biology and Psychology are two important remaining frontiers which are tackling the extant superstitious nonsense that remains.

I agree that the pursuit of reality can only be hindered by continuing to focus on nonsense. However, what specifically that I have said has been shown time and again to be total garbage?

Now that is just downright nasty! I will not stoop down to that level of exchanging insults. I was initially inclined to call it childish behavior, however… we are past that point now. Here it’s referred to as intimidation—especially when it’s clear you know how to push all the right buttons. You call it occult garbage, yet, it’s plain as day that you are versed in that aspect of occult influence—the psychological manipulation of individuals’ emotions. You can’t fool me. I suggest you work things out with God—it’s the only way to find peace.

This might help—read it through and through. Thoughts about Repentance: Teshuvah, Metanoia, and Strepho

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I will never be convinced that there are sources other than the Bible or direct revelation (which does not occur Today) for knowledge regarding God or healthy spiritual discussion.

Your obsession with and attempted inclusion of the occult and New Age spirituality into Christianity is mis-guided and not biblical.

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If you had lived my life, Thomas, you would not say ‘there is no evidence to suggest’ He is intervening in human lives today. Badly wounded behind enemy lines, I needed no ‘Pillar of Fire’ to attest to His presence. But when I desperately needed someBODY’s help, and there was no BODY available, someONE did intervene. So now, while I respect the value of the personal experiences recounted in Scripture, my own experiences carry more weight with me.
Al Leo

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@Find_My_Way

This is interesting if only because the Bible itself reveals that in the latter days God will give special gifts to His faithful people. This explicitly suggests direct revelation—precisely the thing you are aggressively arguing against. Here’s the passage;

And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit [Joel 2:28-29].

Myself I don’t view it as an obsession at all, but rather, as a necessity that has provided me with the relevant applicable tools to explore and learn about the deeper mysteries of life. You should realize that God pouring out His spirit here, unequivocally suggests psychic phenomena—prophesy, dreams, visions etc… I was blessed with these gifts (although some would call it a curse) before I even new anything whatsoever about esoterism, New Age spirituality, or the occult. Therefore, what has been revealed to me about God, Jesus Christ, and the Kingdom comes from my Catholic upbringing, my later studies with the Jehovah’s Witnesses, and the little I learned about the Hebrew people and Judaism in movies and documentaries growing up. I repeat—what has been revealed to me about God, Jesus Christ, and the Kingdom has nothing to do whatsoever with esoterism, New Age spirituality, or the occult. This knowledge only confirmed what had already been revealed to me through direct revelation.

The mystical arts have colored, vivified, and given more meaning to my life. This does not mean it is for everyone, and I am certainly not attempting inclusion of the occult and New Age spirituality into Christianity.

I presented the definitions of certain esoteric terms in order to organize and categorize different personality types and phenomena for the purpose of providing a clearer picture of reality so that the Christian may be shrewd enough to protect himself or herself and the loved ones they care for from the cunning deceptions of those who lurk in the dark.

The only way to bridge science and theology biblically and successfully is through esoteric terms. The term occult means hidden—I don’t see what the big deal is? What is hidden must be exposed. BioLogos is all about truth—the truth of God, the truth of origins, the truth of the spiritual dimension, the truth of good and evil, the truth of life and death.

Esoteric:

  1. understood by or meant for only the select few who have special knowledge or interest; recondite:
    “poetry full of esoteric allusions.”
  1. belonging to the select few.
  1. private; secret; confidential.
  1. (of a philosophical doctrine or the like) intended to be revealed only to the initiates of a
    group:
    “the esoteric doctrines of Pythagoras.”

ESOTERIC Definition & Usage Examples | Dictionary.com

I hope I have clarified any misconceptions that anyone has had concerning my references to the occult.

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