So you have to realize this purpose before you can truly bear God’s image? And even if you realize it, you might fail to bear God’s image anyway!
I thought we were made in the image of God.
I guess that depends on your beliefs. Are you YEC, did God create Adam an adult IB from dust. Or was Adam born of a man, and was later given this IB knowledge/function/purpose from God?
More accurately stated… not might fail anyway, you will fail to bear His image if it is not coming from His Spirit inside us.
As much as a lamp is created to shine light, yes. Though a lamp still needs electricity to do that, right?
No, it’s what you said.
We were simply made in the image of God. It doesn’t say “batteries not included”
1 Like
I wasn’t certain if you were asking my beliefs or asking me to explain them. Which to speak in EC terms to a YEC is pointless. So I needed you to answer that question to determine that. From your answer, I can attempt to explain my beliefs, or not.
Was Adam created from dust as an IB? Or was this bestowed upon him at some point and time?
But it also shows how all mankind has failed to do this as well, but One. It is an analogy, every detail isn’t perfect. I also never said “batteries not included”, that is your analogy. Some toys come “batteries required “, come with batteries, but will still not work until you install them.
A plugged in lamp (battery included) still will not produce light until turned on right? First you must know that you can turn it on, then you must want to turn it on. It doesn’t matter if you are a 100watt bulb plugged into a 1.21 gigawatt outlet. If you don’t know you can be turned on, you will never produce light will you? And once you know that only the electricity coming from God will allow your light to shine, you can still reject it and keep turned off.
It is my belief from reading the scriptures that God’s Spirit inside us is the “battery” that , though it is included, is required for us to operate. Can you find any scripture saying we can truly bear Gods image apart from His Spirit inside us?
Trying to summarize…
I believe God saw us (planned on us to) evolve into lamps (those capable of bearing light). Animals did not evolve into lamps, they can bear His image, electricity does nothing to a desk. God called Adam, plugged him in and turned him on, an image bearer. Adam wanted to produce his own light, unplugged (ripped the cord out) God, created darkness. Saw this darkness, wanted to repent, but alas he was dark/broken lamp that couldn’t be plugged in. Adam told others of this purpose/function God gave him to create light, turning them on, other man wanted to create/control their own light, also ripped the cord out. And so on.
God was not surprised by man ripping out the cord, He knew we would. Jesus was planned on since the beginning of creation to show us how a lamp works.
It wasn’t until Jesus came, that the cord stayed plugged in, light illuminating the whole time, showed us what a lamp is supposed to do, and how it does it. We now have knowledge of how to shine our light, but our cord is still severed. So we point to the light of Jesus, which illuminates all, because light of our own strength is darkness. In heaven, we will be given a new/repaired/glorified cord, we are then acknowledging God is the only way to have light, and we want His electricity turned on forever.
Irrelevant. But I can show you where it says that God unconditionally made us in His image. It’s just there. But you are wandering all over the place.
I am assuming Gen 1:27? I can also show you a receipt for a lamp I bought that produces no light when it’s turned off or unplugged. I could show you a receipt or create one (I have electronic background). After I created one, I can (in good conscience) say “So I created this lamp to produce light”. Even though it still won’t until turned on or plugged in.
Just like God could have said “So God created mankind in his own image“. But only is an bearer of that image when willingly allows the Spirit of God to live through them. To that, I agree we were unconditionally made in His image.
Those in Sodom and Gomorra were not accurately bearing His image were they? So there is a condition to actually bearing His image right? If you aren’t accurately bearing His image, it is either because of failing from trying to, or not know what His image is. So either not turned on yet, or cord ripped out.
That really isn’t that “wondering all over the place”, it is a simple analogy. It might require an open mind as it is not widely spread/accepted doctrine, but it isn’t “all over the place”. You are too frequent to put down another’s beliefs that don’t fit with your doctrine. If you have verses to refute it, put them there, but no need to dismiss me as some lunatic who is “all over the place” all the time. I know I do have some wackadoo thinking out loud sessions. But the beliefs above clearly fit with the overall theme of the Bible, as non-traditional as I present them.
Unless I am discussing this with a YEC, in which case this is all over the place, Adam was clearly created from literal dust as an IB and all mankindkind are descendants of Adam who biologically passes down a ‘sin genes’ and an IB gene and all of this is nonsense. But if you are open to EC, this is a very plausible theory/explanation.
Could have said?
7 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.
It seems to me he did say that.
I agree…that is why I used that…
I was saying, still could have said x, and still meant y. Y wouldn’t make x invalid. I am not arguing x with you, we agree there x was said. I am stating that I think y was meant, and the rest of the scripture seems to agree or show examples of that.
That is also why I said “Can you find any scripture saying we can truly bear Gods image apart from His Spirit inside us?”. Which you dismissed as irrelevant (which I disagree). I see plenty of scriptures saying that and not one that doesn’t. Many scriptures, even red letters said Him abiding in us produce fruit or an everlasting well. Many verses saying we can nothing apart from God. To claim you can, is dangerously prideful, and there are plenty verses speaking on that as well as how detestable it is to God.
“So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.” Even though man still won’t/can’t bear His image without knowing God or having God’s Spirit inside him.
“So @still_learning created a lamp to produce light, To produce light, @still_learning created lamp; tall and short he created them.” Even though it still won’t/can’t produce light without being turned on or having electricity inside.
@beaglelady, it’s clear you don’t like me, but from all the nitpicking details from my posts and going off on tangents, what exactly is your stance? I’m not even sure what you are trying to prove wrong or refute.
Do you believe man can bear the image of God apart from Him? I am trying to get people to think and meditate on His words from a new paradigm, see if that does fit scripture, regardless of fitting traditional doctrine or not.
All the questions you ask me “is x or y an IB”. It seems like a trap, which is why I won’t answer it, nor do I know. But I can speak scriptures as a formula/recipe or sorts, (using analogies) and allow you to you to answer those questions and treat them according to the loving scriptural theme regardless of how you answer that question.
Though it is true, the “jury is still out”, I can’t help it if I have thoughts/logical explanations/opinions on how something works based off of scripture. I know and admit I don’t know the answers, these are just my thoughts. Maybe we were created from dust and born/created as IBs and it is biologically passed down. Maybe God snapped His fingers and all Homo sapiens on this earth became IBs instantly. I just see more scriptures to back up my beliefs over those, that is why I believe that.
Actually, I see Scripture that says that God created us in his image. I don’t see Scripture that says that we need His Spirit inside us to truly bear his image. Maybe you could enlighten me with some quotes. Keep it on-topic. Makes sure it really says that we need God’s spirit inside us to truly bear his image.
The problem is, it doesn’t fit Scripture.
I clearly disagree, I think it is all over the scriptures, though not blatant. Like the prophesy of Jesus is all over the OT, but not neatly and concisely in one verse either.
I can do this via pm if you wish, it seems like this is more between you and me at this point, (anyone else feel free to chime in if you want me to lay it out in the thread vs pm) but we have to take this logic step by step…
Gen 1:26 “Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness,…”
So man was in God’s image when we are like him? Physically? Spiritually? How like Him?
Would you agree righteous like Him?
“…so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.””
To rule like Him? Perhaps create things like Him?
Can you answer those questions? I need to know at which point it becomes a bridge to far.
But you aren’t addressing my request. I want to see where Scripture says that we need His Spirit inside us to truly bear his image.
I’m trying to address your request…
Messianic passages and even whole messianic psalms in the OT are fairly simple to find. I could quote one if you like. Are you ready to find a passage that says we need God’s spirit inside us to truly bear his image? If you can’t find one just say so. No big deal.
Perhaps you are mixing two different things. First, I see being created an image bearer is something that is innate to our being, having been made that way by God. Perhaps that includes the capacity to love, create art, music, philosophy, and so forth even in those who have never heard of Christ. Then there is the role an image bearing has in representing God to the world, both physically as caretaker, and spiritually. I am reading N. T. Wright’s biography of Paul, and he states,“As far as Paul was concerned, the point of being human was to be an image-bearer, to reflect God’s wisdom and order into the world and to reflect the praises of creation back to God.” Wright indicates elsewhere that being the image of God is more that, but does not address it in this book.
In short, my thought is that all created bear the image of God, but would agree that having the Spirit is necessary to achieve our full potential and purpose.
4 Likes
In Genesis 9, God unambiguously, and without qualification, explains capital punishment for murderers. It doesn’t depend on the optional presence of the spirit … it depends on the Universal presence of God’s image!
4 Likes
Thank you, George! But don’t you have to carry a membership card to prove you belong to the Image Bearers Association?
2 Likes
Yep. It’s a birthright, neither sought nor earned, and will never be taken away.
2 Likes