Is DNA essence of life?

Faith & Science Conversation
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You demonstrated no such thing. You simply claimed that you can’t believe the difference between humans and chimps can be explained by the genetic differences between the species. That is an argument from incredulity. You haven’t offered a shred of evidence other than your unwillingness to accept the facts.

It does mean we are apes if the match between chimps and gorillas or orangutans is greater than 1.2%, and it is.[quote=“NonlinOrg, post:56, topic:36834”]
Other implications of “DNA is of limited importance” as demonstrated! are: “revival of extinct species might be much harder than currently expected as would be chimera hybridization, and abiogenesis attempts currently focused on DNA and RNA might be futile”
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How does that imply what you think?

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And where are your testable hypothesis? This is too precious coming from someone that won’t test his beliefs. Here, try this.

Anyway, focusing now on the _current topi_c, this is not new science. The facts are there for anyone to view and correctly interpret them. Let’s recap:
Fact 1: Making anything from scratch requires raw materials and information.
Fact 2: Making the simplest products like pencils and tires requires many times more than 1 GB of data as manufacturers employ thousands of engineers that generate the information necessary in extracting and refining the raw materials, in making the building blocks, in making the tools and the tools that make the manufacturing tools.
Fact 3: The human body is the most complex entity known; more complex than pencils, tires, computers, the whole of the internet (arguably).
Fact 4: DNA in its linear form contains only 1GB of data.
Fact 5: DNA is not particularly well compressed for information – 64 bits (3 nucleotides) encode 20 aminoacids; up to thousands of nucleotides encode a single protein.
Assumption 1: DNA 3D structure and other chemical properties of cells add an unknown amount of information which is also not known how it differs from organism to organism. Until further research proves otherwise, assume this increased information offsets compression inefficiencies from Fact 5.
Fact 6: Human DNA differs from chimp DNA by 1.2% and from banana DNA by 50% while human DNA differs from other humans by up to 0.5%.
Fact 7: Humans differ from chimps in several dimensions including development, anatomy, intelligence, and behavior. Simply describing all these differences take a large volume of data.
Conclusion 1: From Fact 1, 2, and 3 – it takes an unknown yet very large amount of data to store the information necessary to develop a human from zygote to birth.
Conclusion 2: From Conclusion 1 and Fact 4 – the human DNA is grossly inadequate to store the information needed to develop a human from zygote to birth; DNA is not what makes us human!
Conclusion 3: From Conclusion 2 and Facts 6, 7 – humans differ from chimps by orders of magnitude more than the 8 MB of data difference in the two DNAs; DNA fails to support the assertion that humans are apes!

Now take them one by one and dispute with facts if you have any.

Again, not this topic but this is too ridiculous. The claim is “origin of species” whatever “species” even means. Now a different color makes a “species”?!? Then chameleons must “evolve” and “devolve” every day.

No, you are over your head and spamming. The topic is “DNA essence of life?” not your random thoughts.

Not this topic and not what I said.
Anyway, since you don’t have anything intelligible to say about this topic, we’ll pick it up when/if you actually do.

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NonLin…

Any Christian would, almost certainly, consider the Soul - God’s gift to each person - to be the Essence of Life.

BioLogos is devoted to Christians… so you are probably using the wrong subject title for your BioLogos audience.
Maybe @Jonathan_Burke and @T_aquaticus can comment on this “Essence of Life” theme.

The comment “peppered moth is a genuine example of evolution” is a reference to the definition of Evolution which includes even changes in allele ratios!.. not just the arrival of some novel mutation.

As for the definition of species, for once the Bible and the Scientists are actually on the same page:

These two verses, made famous by the Rev. Kent Hovind, clearly define what God meant by ‘kinds’!:

Gen 1:24-25
"And God said,
Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind,
cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind:
and it was so. "

“And God made
the beast of the earth after his kind,
and cattle after their kind,
and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind:
and God saw that it was good.”

Now, speciation generally cannot occur until the free exchange of genetic material within a group is interrupted by geographical barrier (sometimes a behavioral change acts as such a “barrier” like a new bird song that is only attractive to a relatively small group of bird mates). Once the free exchange of genetic material within a group is interrupted, one group can experience gene pool changes that the other group does not experience - - or doesn’t experience in the same way.

And once the two populations start heading in their own unique directions, you can have one group getting bigger or smaller, while the original group is getting hairier or less hairy… horns appear… or disappear… diet changes - - any change can happen.

While this speciation does not mean two groups suddenly look dramatically different … the very next step in the process of speciation is one group “drifts” towards a new “optimum” fit - - while the original group “drifts” towards in yet another extreme or optimum “fit”. Eventually, we have fish with limb like fins… or proto-whales with dwindling limbs… or rodents that start developing extra expanses of skin to assist in their travel between tree stands - - on its way to being a bat.

In plants, speciation can happen in a single generation when chromosomes double-up … and reproductive compatibility is re-defined in a single season!!!

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Any particle in a quantum field has information.[quote=“NonlinOrg, post:66, topic:36834”]
Fact 2: Making the simplest products like pencils and tires requires many times more than 1 GB of data as manufacturers employ thousands of engineers that generate the information necessary in extracting and refining the raw materials, in making the building blocks, in making the tools and the tools that make the manufacturing tools.
[/quote]

How in the world are you measuring this information? You can make a pencil or tire without a computer, so computer code can’t be what you are talking about.[quote=“NonlinOrg, post:66, topic:36834”]
Fact 4: DNA in its linear form contains only 1GB of data.
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That is bogus. The information found in a DNA molecules is not limited to a series of letters on a flash drive. You might as well say that water contains just a few bytes because of how you store H2O on a hard drive. You might as well say that a combination of Na and Cl is 25% different from a mixture of N and Cl because they differ by one letter.[quote=“NonlinOrg, post:66, topic:36834”]
Fact 5: DNA is not particularly well compressed for information – 64 bits (3 nucleotides) encode 20 aminoacids; up to thousands of nucleotides encode a single protein.
[/quote]

That leaves out functional RNAs that require 3D structure to have activity, such as the stem-loop structures produced by unprocessed microRNA’s. It also fails to give the information that causes complementary DNA molecules to bind to one another. There is a TON of information you are leaving out.[quote=“NonlinOrg, post:66, topic:36834”]
Fact 6: Human DNA differs from chimp DNA by 1.2% and from banana DNA by 50% while human DNA differs from other humans by up to 0.5%.
Fact 7: Humans differ from chimps in several dimensions including development, anatomy, intelligence, and behavior. Simply describing all these differences take a large volume of data.
Conclusion 1: From Fact 1, 2, and 3 – it takes an unknown yet very large amount of data to store the information necessary to develop a human from zygote to birth.
Conclusion 2: From Conclusion 1 and Fact 4 – the human DNA is grossly inadequate to store the information needed to develop a human from zygote to birth; DNA is not what makes us human!
Conclusion 3: From Conclusion 2 and Facts 6, 7 – humans differ from chimps by orders of magnitude more than the 8 MB of data difference in the two DNAs; DNA fails to support the assertion that humans are apes!
[/quote]

I would fully agree that if you took the DNA out of a human cell and put it on a table that DNA would not develop into a human being right in front of us. It is the interaction of DNA with the other stuff in the cell which gives rise to a human being or a chimp or any other species. The primary reason that species differ from one another is due to the differences in DNA sequence found between their genomes because it is those differences in sequence that ultimately changes those cellular interactions.

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Can you explain why it is possible to inject a bit of human DNA into an e. coli bacteria cell and have the cell quite happily make a human hormone? If that little bit of DNA all by itself in a totally different environment from what it is normally operating in can do it’s part to create a human why do you doubt that the sum total of the DNA would not likewise create a complete human?

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Touched a sore spot did we?

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Here, here, here.

T_aquatics has already dealt with this extremely well, so I won’t add anything.

No, a simple change of color does not make a species. Clearly you do not understand the significance of the peppered moth to evolution. Reading the article to which I linked would help you.

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I feel we have reached a good place to close this post, as it has drifted from iOS origins and has become problematic. If any side issues have come up meriting further discussion, feel free to start another post , adhering to the principles of kind and gracious behavior.