Might seem odd that I am posting this question here, but I cannot shake the feeling that the proof of this hypothesis will be found somewhere in the genome. I would like to start by stating upfront I have very limited understanding of genetics. I have ADN, so am certainly no where near a professional in understanding, but pray that my ignorance will not be any hindrance to this possibility being explored.
Sex no doubt is very important, a God given blessing that procreation depends upon. There are very wide ranging views pertaining to the topic of sex. Seems everything within nature, science is proving, follows specific laws and patterns that, if TRUE, hold true across the board, from the micro to the macro. I have 4 children, am divorced twice, an Addict, Veteran, RN, and faithful believer, though far from perfect I assure you. I lost custody to 3 of my 4 children through a series of events that started from sexual trauma that happened between my children. Not here to go into that, but this topic is definitely near and dear to my heart and very personal.
I cannot shake the feeling that the sexual trauma children experience is directly caused by the parents sexual transgressions. Parents who are married and faithful, to my knowledge, their children have NO sexual trauma. (I do not have the means to research this further, so this is something that I have just noticed in my experience with talking to people, very small scale.) There seems to be a very strong and direct correlation between the more sexual partners parents have, the more sexual trauma their children experience.
2 Samuel 13:1-22 documents the rape of Tamar by her half brother. Exodus 34:7 says “…the sins of the fathers (parents) will be put on the child to the 3rd and 4th generation…”
Statistics show that there is very high incidence of documented cases of rape/incest, with perpetrator usually a close family member.
I feel that there is even a mathematical formula, and that this proof is somewhere in our DNA, genome, genetics, not entirely sure on the differences in terminology. Wouldn’t surprise me one bit if the census of Israel documented in Numbers 1:1-34 isn’t some sort of "road map " in our genome.
I don’t have the resources, and definitely wouldn’t know where to even begin, but will hopefully be able to draw attention to this by those who could research this more. Reading the remarkable book by Dr. Collins The Language of God is what brought me here, and also brought to mind the possibility that maybe this holds true throughout all of the animal kingdom, since our genetics is so very similar.
Any input would be greatly appreciated. God bless
Welcome to the forum, Brandy777. It is an interesting question, just keep in mind that we are just random people on the internet, so you have to take everything said with a grain of salt.
Also, as a moderator, I feel obligated to tell you that we tend to avoid sexuality topics due the high emotions and nasty turn they sometimes take, so if the discussion goes that way, will turn this into a private message. However, it seems to be a legitimate question regarding the science of sexual abuse, so will let it remain at present.
My feeling is that sexual abuse is not primarily genetic, but rather is more environmental, but like most things in life, is multi-factorial. Perhaps the tendency is there, and the environment pushes the behavior in that direction.
And my personal feeling of Exodus 34:7 is that it more an observation rather than a curse placed on later generations. We can easily see that sin in our lives, whether sexual or criminal greatly affects our children and grandchildren, and its effect can linger a couple of more generations before the cultural memory and stigma is diluted and forgotten. Of course, the same can be true of genetics as well, as we can have little genetic overlap with our great great grandparents due to gene sorting and such.
I am not sure how you relate Numbers1 to a genetic road map, however. It seems a simple census, and to read into it something from our modern knowledge of genetics seems far fetched. Am I missing something here?
Finally, I know full well that there are many children who fall prey to sexual abuse whose parents are loving and faithful. In fact, it is unfortunate but truth that the trust good Christian parents place in the church and those in authority in leadership areas at times make the children vulnerable to sexual predators. We have to be diligent, alert, and accountable to protect the innocent.
Phil thank you for your reply and insight. Sexual trauma happened between my own children at the end of 2017, and the journey since has been indescribable. I have no idea if there is actual proof of this or not, just have a feeling that I have not been able to shake. I know that it seems a bit far fetched, and certainly not any correlation that I would have come to myself. I do know without any doubt, that if there is any truth in this possibility, that it will hold true, and facts and data will be found.
I know that this is an uncomfortable topic and definitely has the potential of flaring up emotions for various reasons. I completely understand if you need to shut it down due to tempers flaring, though hopefully that will not be the case. Thank you and God bless.
I find this difficult to understand.
Sexual trauma is the result of sexual assault.
Do I believe people commit sexual assault or other crimes because of the sexual history of their ancestors? No I do not. To be sure bad examples abound and whether in friends or media, the fact remains they have chosen the bad examples they immitate. It is possible that the lack of good examples in the success of healthy relationship might contribute to this. But I don’t think the role of their own choices is ever negated.
Thank you for your input Mitchell. I can understand your doubt, definitely sounds pretty far fetched. I cannot shake the feeling that there will be truth found in this, law of cause and effect holds true. Quote I love, thought it came from Herbert Spencer but Google says William Paley “There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance — that principle is contempt prior to investigation”. Thank God for research and science, and that inner drive of seeking truth.
welcome to the forum.
This is a tough topic that requires serious, dispassionate research based in obsevation and statistics, not a feeling you can’t shake.
I am a librarian, so, my first instinct is to send you to a research librarian, who can help you develop a beginning research strategy and direct you to reliable resources. Some people in the forum are physicians and may be able to direct you as well.
Medline Plus is a good initial place to start. It’s an knowledgebase develped for the public by the National Library of Medicine, through the NIH. I did a quick search with “child sexual trauma” and got this list of results: MedlinePlus - Search Results for: children sexual trauma .
PubMed (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov) is another resource from the National Library of Medicine. It is geared toward professionals but is useful and available to the public. PubMed contains both full-text articles as well as citations to articles you will probably need a librarian to request for you, but that is absolutely possible in most areas of the United States.
As an individual, I would strongly discourage you from allowing your gut-feeling that you can’t shake to be your guide in understanding this serious matter. These kinds of matters require wisdom in the field and a great deal of care.
I wish you success in coming to a better understanding of the problem and finding solutions as well.
If you need help finding a library that can help you with research, you are welcome to PM me.
Welcome Brandy, There is some evidence that memory, trauma or a propensity to act in a certain way is in the flesh (all the cells in the body). This “memory” can be passed on through procreation and also organ donation.
Kendel thank you. What I am proposing has not been researched before. The closest study I could find was a study looking to see if semen changed anything in the female, though I do not recall the specifics, other than no changes were noted. There is more than just a gut feeling here, it is personal correlation I have become aware of involving my own children, although I do not feel comfortable to share more in depth because the sexual trauma did not happen to me directly, therefore that is not my place to share.
This may not be the right forum, but the more I research on genetics the more intrigued I become. Absolutely incredible all of the knowledge that is coming from the studies of the human genome project.
I have also pursued going back to college for genetic research, but at this time that door has not opened.
Thank you for your information.
Ethan I have not read that specifically, but have heard of similar studies being explored. Very fascinating. There has definitely been a huge explosion in all fields of science, and so many mysteries are being revealed through science! I wish I had known when I was younger how truly fascinating science really is. I know that I am way over my head even throwing something like this out there, but the more I learn and see, the stringer the correlation seems to be. May be completely unrelated, the parents sexual transgressions and the sexual trauma children experience, but what if it is? At least warrants to actually take a look at it. I considered the field of psychology, as area of science that might be interested in exploring, but if true, the proof is somewhere in the genome, may be what some call “junk DNA”, that is known to change. What if taking a new sexual partner is what causes the change?
Thank you for sharing the information.
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agree with this post JPM. I have a relative who lost access to a daughter for many years due to this same dilemma. He was blamed for an incident that years later his former partner’s husband was later convincted of in a court of law. Despite that, his former partner refuses to accept that my relative was innocent and still blindly continues with her vendetta against him.
These topics can be so very difficult as we try to find reasons why…sometimes i think that the only real reason is a quote from a movie i saw once…(batman)
Michael Cain in Dark Night - “…some men aren’t looking for anything logical, like money. They can’t be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.”
Like the O.P i have no expertise in this area outside of basic child development studies as part of my education degree. What i do know is that certainly the early stages of child development (in the womb and the first few years of life) are critical in what happens next. Choices parents make certainly do have an influence even biologically…of that i have no doubt. However, the question whether or not this creates a biological criminal? (That i cannot be sure…to some extent i think so)
I think we can extrapolate from the above that often in life that “people just do” and there doesnt seem to be much reason for it. For me the biggest tradgedy is that we go searching for a pill one can take to fix those things…im sure that as Christians the pill should be God rather than a “chemical rolled up into a ball”. Having said that, I beleive that God exerts an influence even over secular medical science…he is interested in his own creation trying their best to use the talents he has given us to help deal with the consequences of the human condition.
Im sorry my post here only increases the ambiguity in a logical answer…My wife is also a school teacher and spends a great deal of time trying to make sense of young childrens behaviour…“why do they do what they do?”…if we havent figured kids out yet, then adults are a ways off…I dont think we have a single simple solution because the problem is very complicated.
While no one is perfect, that is also not an excuse, or a scapegoat to cover our actions. We are still very much responsible for the choices we make, regardless of how limited they choices may be because of the nature of our childhood or current situation. But we still have a choice. Even if you are a man in a pit surrounded by a concrete stadium full of people cheering for you to drive a spear through another slaves face you have a choice and you’re responsible for it. So not being perfect, or being on drugs does not excuse whatever choices led to you somehow losing kids. I don’t see how having multiple partners would lead to it either. If you were an addict, and bringing in other men who were addicts and so on, and they were terrible men, sure, but that’s a quality of the partners issue and not the number of partners. Now I’m not here to cast stones at you just to highlight some of the stuff I found glossed over in an absurd way. Counselors who focus on cognitive processing and emotional intelligence would be a good place to start to work through some of that.
So the reason why there is not any significant amount of research on does how many partners you have create sexual trauma is because there is no reason to think there is a connection. Emotional trauma leading to trying to find fulfillment through sex could happen if a kid grows up in a constant shattering family. But it’s very case by case. Some parents stay married and are faithful to each other but still bad toxic people and splitting them up may be healthier for the child. Plenty of kids have step parents and are perfectly fine.
I was listening to audiobook or podcast once in genetics and epigenetic and it mentioned that someone who comes from a line of very promiscuous ancestors may have a nature and nurture drive to spreading their genes through sex. There is a lot of discussion and debate and gaps in what we know about what all is instincts and what is all environmental and between.
Also as mentioned sexual trauma is caused by some kind of sexual abuse, even if it’s psychological like seeing something that freaks you out, or even hearing something bizarre as a kid that’s not true that affects you later on in life. Maybe, a bit contrary to what I said earlier, some kids may have some psychological symptoms created by knowing their parents sleep around a lot but with some kids it won’t affect them at all.
I don’t think anyone here is even remotely qualified to give any real answers to this. It’s all just gut feelings and anecdotal experiences.
But like what Kendel said, you can have a greater armchair grasp of what experts do say about this by looking into what experts actually have to say. Psychologists are probably better qualified than medical doctors I think on this issue.
Again, the story was to ambiguous and so I am not judging you. I don’t know you and I most likely never will for many reasons. I hope that you keep doing better and better. I hope that if you want your kids, yall are able to find the best path forward to having the most meaningful relationship yall can have. Definitely always be super careful about who you let around your kids. Many men and women are terrible people. I don’t even let women I barely know be left alone with my cats.
I also would not use just once verse. After all Jesus says the opposite.
This is by the Bible project.
https://bibleproject.com/articles/the-sins-of-our-fathers/#:~:text=God’s%20heart%20isn’t%20about,from%20their%20parents’%20mistakes%20accountable.
But just because sins don’t magically curse us does not mean our bad choices don’t harm others including our kids, or even our pets. Drunk men screaming and smashing stuff can cause puppies even to develop PTSD to loud sounds. I adopted two cats that each came from abusive situations. I can’t even take my jacket off and toss it onto my couch because one of them will freak out. When they are in my bed with me, I have to use earbuds to watch tv because if the tv is to loud, even barely 1/3rd of the way up one of them will panic and pee all over and I’ve had her for years. I can’t wear anything on my head around her. Even a normal hat and she won’t let me near her. A third cat I’ve had since birth, had to bottle feed him even, and he is so ignorant of harm in scared he will get out and not know to flee danger. I can watch a screaming horror film turned up loud, yelling at the tv, and he’s as comfortable as can be. The most traumatic thing happening to him is me hiding the treats so he can’t knock it over and me shutting him out of my room sometimes because he likes to sleep on me and then I can’t roll at all.
But to add, I matter what we have done, despite being held accountable for it by ourselves and society, rightly so, we can be forgiven of it by God. We can still become more Christ like and be a light in darkness. We should learn from our past, but not be shackled to the worse versions of ourselves. We can always be happy for the goodness we are striving to embody and bear fruit of. So just keep trucking along. In the army we often said “pain is just weakness leaving the body”. Regardless if it’s our chest burning from pushups or our hearts aching from being away from our loved ones on field missions. Soldier up, carry on and strive for greatness.
you think this on the grounds of biology and the genetic makeup of the human body? I am not so sure about that.
A psychologist is a professional who practices psychology and studies mental states, perceptual, cognitive, emotional, and social processes and behavior. Their work often involves the experimentation, observation, and interpretation of how individuals relate to each other and to their environments. Psychologist - Wikipedia
i suppose it depends on exactly what the O.P is focusing on, the genetic passing on of criminal genes or the social implications of a parent having sex with someone other than the childs father/mother?
Im saying the above because i recognise that we have a medical doctor on these forums who probably gets tired of being undermined by such comments. Whilst a doctor may not directly treat social conditioning, to say he isnt well versed in that area i think is very unfair…particularly as the practitioner may deem that the solution isnt a social one at all.
I should also mention im a little shitty as Phsychologists at present. My wife is a year level leader at her school and one went to a parent and told them one of my wifes staff member’s was “mean” to her professionally because she questioned the conclusions the practitioner raised regarding a student. If a person who supposedly specialises in human behaviour cannot handle the standard robustness of most school teachers (particularly one who is also a parent with her own children), then i do tend to view such individuals as being a bit too consumed by text books and political correctness than with the real world. I also recall going to a marriage counsellor once (i vaguely recall i may have managed two or three visits) who tried to fabricate a complete fairytale about how my sisters poor relationship with my mother was affecting my marriage with my own wife…despite my own relationship with my mother being documented as excellent…at that point i tended to lose faith in that nonsense and take a far more realistic approach to life…that would be to “look at the world around me” rather than concoct fairytale theories (yes i know strange given my YEC views…i take that on the chinny chin chin 
)
The question as posed is pretty vague, and I suspect actual research in that area would be multidisciplinary with sociology and genetic specialists involved. If you wanted to look at a solitary professional for advice, psychiatry would be most appropriate, combining the physical with behavioral training. In the US, psychiatrists are MDs or DOs who complete a residency in psychiatry. Psychologists may have a much more variable training, either a Masters or a Ph.D. And counselors are even less regulated with social workers, psychologists, and pretty much anyone who can pay a mail order “school” for a diploma being able to put out a sign. Of course, state regulations can vary, and there are good and bad people in all the aforementioned.
As a family doc, when I was in practice, questions like those posed really were not something I thought about, as most often the question was how to deal with past trauma, and whether there was a suspicion of abuse prompting a call to Child Protective Services, so really pretty pragmatic.