How Quebec went from one of the most religious societies to one of the least

I don’t know that the Church is obsessed with sex. Christians observe the Levitical prohibitions just the same way all Orthodox Jews and some non-orthodox Jews do. The forbidden sexual behaviors are all non-reproductive behaviors. The prohibitions are listed in the book of Leviticus 18:19-24. In the following verses 25-30, the reader is told why: so that you (your people) are not “spewed out of the land.” In other words, the biblical author knows that observing those prohibitions will raise your total fertility rate. Remember, God told Abraham his descendants would be as numerous as the stars in the sky. The reason those behaviors are prohibited is because infant mortality was very high in antiquity and the Torah describes never ending war with much loss of life.

When I was in parochial school there was a joke going around: how does a rabbi have sex with his wife?
The answer was “through a hole in a sheet” meaning that as he engaged in reproductive sex, he at the same time expressed his denial of it. did that ever happen? It didn’t have to. I think you get it.

It’s important to reproduce carefully. The most careful way is the religious way. That’s why Quebec’s TFR dropped as her population abandoned religion.

Be sure you have children, if you can. There will be no one to look out for you in old age.

I agree with you about hypocritical Christians, no argument there.

Longing for the day when we can roll back rights, are we? Don’t tell yourself that morals in the good old days were better. You could just get away with more. White planters regularly raped their slaves, and so forth.

I think that as a father of a beautiful, 7 year old girl, I am more conservative than I used to be before. I plan on being very careful about advising my precious daughter about which kinds of guys she dates. We know the ones that are interested only in selfish things, and I hope to encourage her, as the apple of my eye, towards the godly ones. This is a positive thing. The ones that care about her as a person, and want to stake their lives on treating her as more than themselves–as my dad did my mom–those are few and far between, but worth it. It is an outgrowth of character. My father was also a defender of the poor and needy, and it showed in his character elsewhere. He strongly condemned abuse in any form–whether to females or minorities, including sexual minorities.

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I don’t know about being careful. We’ve been around as a species for 2,000,000 years or more, making lots of babies, and that’s why we’re still around.

I think you are smart. Liberals are opposed to non-consensual sex as far as I can see, no matter what.

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I’m longing for a just society that has yet to exist - and never will fully - short of the fully realized Kingdom of God. Perhaps I’m just not quite so naïve as to think that today’s purveyors of current sensibilities are really that much more righteous than those they point fingers at. But that said, the slavers of old were indeed despotically wicked people. The favorable comparison of today with yester-year isn’t because we now clear some high bar today. It’s a sign, rather, of how low the bar has been over the last centuries.

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Infant mortality is now extremely low, in 1st world countries at least, and the “never ending war with much loss of life”…has ended! Therefore those verses of the Bible that you mentioned are completely irrelevant in modern world. In fact, some argue that it would be far more beneficial for everyone to slow or reverse population growth for environmental reasons, but also to ensure higher quality of life. And no, this doesn’t just come from the secular circles.

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Sometimes reading about different experiences in here is crazy to me. I have noticed many churches, and people who seemed obsessed with sex and comes up with these weird social expectations of men and woman. It’s even weirder seeing it as an adult.

These weird “fears” and expectations seem to create big insecurities. My fiancée is in China for example and she occasionally posts pictures of herself at the movies ( obviously pre-covid) with other men. Or she will post about how she and some guy had a great night and went out to eat, went to the movies, and so on. Guys use to tag me and be like isn’t this your woman? I would be like yeah… and they would be like did you see this, and I would explain yeah and I liked it and I’m glad she had a fun evening with her friend. They start talking as if I’m somehow playing with fire and it’s ridiculous. Likewise I often go hiking or camping and sometimes it’s with a woman. People will comment , I thought your gf was Asian or did y’all break up and ect… when no. I spent time with a friend. It’s not just the religious world either. There are a lot of very insecure people , including liberal atheists, who have these very controlling toxic relationships. If you see two people out in public around the same age having fun people almost always initially thinks they are dating.

I have a friend named Beau from childhood. He was the first persons house I ever stayed the night at. I was 15. Never liked staying the night at other peoples houses. Even now I rarely do. But once a year me and Beau, who is very clearly gay, goes to a small ocean side town Oregon. Except for the last two years for various reasons. We go to the same sandwich shop and book store and it’s still owned and operated by the same people. The people who own it a few years ago told us how crazy it is that we have been together for so long. Lol. They thought we was a couple. It was weird but we explained no we are just friends.

Or how I have a friend named Leo. She and I have been friends for about 7 years. She now lives about 5 hours away. Sometimes she comes over and spends the weekend. We will lay in bed together and watch horror movies. We have never kissed or wanted too. Just strictly friends. Had a man once who found out she was staying over sometimes tell me that we are giving the image of sin. So I told him, don’t worry, we will put on rings to trick everyone into thinking we are married and solve the problem. He mentioned we should flee from temptation. I explained well someone should have warned Jesus about having out with sex workers then.

People are often confused how can I support opposite sex friends of people in relationships to hang out alone together. I explain because it’s not evil. If it’s a temptation for you then avoid it. If not, then maybe stop pretending it’s evil. Scripture says don’t lust after a woman, and don’t have sex before marriage, and don’t have sex outside of marriage. It never says a man and a woman can’t be good friends.

It’s bizarre that some people believe that opposite sex friendship can’t exist and that it’s just a pathway to sex or relationships. It’s almost like instead of someone learning to control themselves, they try to remove the temptation by demanding others to wear more clothes and don’t spend time with them. I live near the beach. There are very pretty women walking around all day wearing little clothing. We can’t control who are attracted too. But we can control what we think about and what we do. If a pretty girl walks out in front of me, I’ll almost instantly realize I find they are attractive. It’s normal. It’s not evil. What gets sinful is if I allow myself to look at them and undress them with my eyes. We all see men and women in stores who are noticeable staring someone down. We even creepily probably see people trying to take pictures.

In the gym I often see very fit woman working out. I’ll notice often that when a woman is working out, like doing squats, several men will be staring. Sometimes to the point a woman will just leave. Though I think unfortunately many of them are use to it and just ignore it. When I’m in the gym with someone from church, if they seem to be gawking I’ll point out that it’s ok to recognize attraction. Being attracted to someone is not evil. But you control your eyes. Don’t look at them as if they are meat. Dont stare at their bodies. Don’t allow yourself to fantasize about them. It is a choice. You can actively stop your thoughts. You can train yourself in righteousness. Feeling sad, angry, turned on, or scared are all normal biological processes. It’s all part of being a human. Of being a animal even. But what sets us apart, is that we can choose to not sin in those emotions. We can choose to control our thoughts and actions.

But it seems like instead the church, snd society in whole wants to instead control others. Instead of not looking at a woman in a bikini at the beach playing volleyball, and instead of not fantasizing about them , people will blame them and say well they need to hop around less and wear shorts and a shirt. This is not saying peolle need to be mindful of what they do snd wear, but that what a other person is doing or wearing does not force us to look at them or fantasize abkut them.

But until people can develop self disciple and pursue righteousness, snd learn how to have friends of the opposite sex, and stop treating everything as if it’s flirting with sin I don’t think the church, or society will move past it and this overly conservative approach of just avoid them and so on is why there is this giant leap on the other side to pursue more snd more lewd practices.

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There is no guarantee that children will take care of you or even outlive you. That’s why we have social security and other social services.

I don’t think we need to rely on your interpretation of Leviticus so much. Having sex with a wife past menopause is non-reproductive behavior.

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So Quebec drank deeply at the fount of the Darwinian evolutionary tale (along with the big bang story, abiogenesis etc. ) and made it their new religion.

Yup, religion. therein lies the rub. I like what Ray Comfort does on Living Waters on YouTube - clears out religion and makes a way for the gospel. If you haven’t seen any of those videos, please do yourself a favour and have a look. You might be able to point others to it. Here’s one that can be thought provoking: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flwT5sJo4kA
Here’s another to inspire one to do the work we all need to do:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pE04NrkAz0

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Greetings. I never met any reference to evolution in Quebec. Can you cite references? Thanks.

The Bible teaches that the earth is flat. There is zero references to a globe. It says earth is a flat disc, a circle, like a plate.

The Bible also teaches that our flat earth is surrounded by a disc.

The Bible also teaches that the sun revolves around earth. That it’s the sun that moves around us. You don’t see any Bible verses mentioned earth moving around the sun.

Do you believe in a globe shaped earth without a dome protecting it that revolves around the sun or do you accept the biblical idea of a flat disc shaped earth with a protective dome
Around it keeping out space water and that the sun is rotating around us?

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Such a treat to hear this from a man👏🏻doesn’t happen often. Especially from a religious man on a Christian forum. Not saying that religious men can’t have modern views on attraction and opposite sex, not at all, rather referring to yet another unkind stereotype we as Christians are subjected(unfair, but we should work to dismantle it). In fact the worst misogynist I ever knew was a neighbour of mine who was a militant atheist of the worst kind. Used to say things like “women are just there for man’s pleasure” or “women should tart themselves up to look good for men” which coming from a non-believer is even more ridiculous than coming from a Christian(if you could call yourself a Christian with views like that).

And to be clear, “others” means “women/girls”, doesn’t it? So we really, REALLY need to stop saying “boys will be boys” like they have no responsibility, no control over themselves, whilst clearly, they do, and if they don’t it’s because they have been brainwashed into dumping all responsibility on women . This is wrong not only because the woman gets all the blame, but it’s also part of attitude of blaming victims in general(like let’s say victim of a fraud is blamed for being stupid).

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Since I’m a heterosexual man typically everything I write is from that perspective. Anything I say could almost always be adapted for societal pressures on men and how women inside them.

But yes when it comes to what’s modest or not it seems like typically it’s women who have the most weird obstacles in place and restrictions. Makes me think of that previous shooter who attacked and killed asian women because he thought thet was how to deal with not ha ing control over his lust.

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Nobody is saying that things are perfect. But they are certainly better for marginalized people.

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There is only one interpretation of Leviticus and you don’t appear to know it. If you want to have all the sex you want, that’s none of my business. How many children I have is none of yours and an inappropriate question in any forum, but especially egregious in a “Biologos” forum. You have much too tender a perspective to argue these issues.

LOL!  

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And perhaps more importantly, they could be still better. We shouldn’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good … even if that good is only better and not the best.

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Indeed. It’s a work in progress.

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