God's Sovereign Will(s?)

[St.Roymond]

@RichardG

how much we need to accept the “biblical” view of God rather than taking it as the ANE view of God.

False choice – they’re intimately related. The OT is an ANE set of documents.

@RichardG

I don’t know about anybody else but i do not feel manipulated or denied my freedom, even f I gave my life to God, He does not seem to keep it.

Oh, He keeps it – just not the way a human person might.
I did a project once where four of us did a word study on the promises about “keeping” in the OT. Our premier conclusion was that “keep” in modern English is at best a poor translation – we really don’t have a word that matches the concept there.

@RichardG

The fact that I can freely give my life is one thing, the way God behaves toward that gift is something quite different.

Exactly.

@RichardG

“What I would do I do not etc”

But was that just Paul’s perception or even upbringing, or was it actuality?

Or was he speaking as a Gentile might apart from Torah?

I had a professor who maintained that Paul was quoting someone in the Roman congregation to use as an example – first time I’d ever thought it might not be Paul talking about himself.

[RichardG (Richard Gillett)]

@St.Roymond

Or was he speaking as a Gentile might apart from Torah?

It reflects the Jewish perspective. Even you must admit that Jews see God as controlling. The psalmist (psalm 8) wonders why God takes any notice of us humans at all, rather than expressing appreciation that God does listen to us.

I now you see me as derogatory to Paul but i am no more derogaqtory to him than you are to the writer of Gensis 1 (Whether Moses or not)

I see Scripture as humans trying to understand God, not as God’s revealing words. The revelation of God is subject to the human writer’s understanding and world view. It is not immutable but it is Holy.

Richard