Genesis According to the Miao People

Absolutely. Your interpretation of the Bible is not.

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Girdled rocks

New evidence always supports the antiquity of the earth, and it continues to build. (It is too bad that YECism is so frequently so closely identified with Christianity as to be integral to it.)
 

By a Christian (one of my favorite words is included – see if you can deduce which one ; - ) …

Found this.
Butterfly Mother on Google Books

So other than referencing a great flood the epic doesn’t bear a lot of similarity to Genesis. For sure it doesn’t get creation anywhere close to Genesis. And floods in China rivers is a regular event.

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Not at all. A differing opinion makes neither infallible.
 

You just said you were using logic well. You were not.

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Hi again Laura
I believe in a Global flood but understand we all have our different views. All will not come to the same conclusions of what the Word of God says. So what is the purpose of debating? Everyone has their views. No since of debating of what the Lord is showing me with others and vice versa. It is a personal relationship with the Lord.
Merry Christmas Laura

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Okay Dale
Merry Christmas

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That’s true – different Christians who love God can still come to different conclusions about how to interpret the Bible but agree on the most important things. Hope you have a Merry Christmas also!

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And the most important thing of all is? Hint ^

People across the globe can have the story of the same flood even if the Biblical flood was a local flood and even if none of them are descended from Noah. It’s called cross-cultural transmission or contamination. Now I don’t think that all the flood stories ARE of the same flood. Laura’s explanation regarding the likely widespread experience of disastrous floods is quite reasonable. But we also don’t have to insist that all the flood stories in different cultures are from different flood experiences either. If their are enough commonalities like the inclusion of the story of Babel then I would say that is a good candidate for being about the same flood.

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In 2016, (note that your ICR article is 30 years old) archaeologists found evidence that very ancient flood legends from China were based on a historical event. Unfortunately for the creationist websites, the reconstructed historical event (involving a an earthquake that caused a landslide that created a natural dam of a river, which eventually broke, unleashing a great flood) does not match the Genesis account at all. Lots of cultures have flood legends because lots of cultures have catastrophic floods in their histories. Creationists seize on one or two similarities between them and claim the only logical conclusion is that they all have the same source. This isn’t the only logical conclusion though, and you will find that very relevant details that cast doubt on the hypothesis that they all come from the same source are conveniently omitted from the creationist descriptions.

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@DOL Dr. Lamoureux also has a very good map about parallels between flood myths and geographical flood-prone areas of the world on his course at coursera.com

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I must admit that I’ve never studied this particular legend. I read through it. I’m a bit skeptical on name similarities to be honest. I would like to see more info on was there really this and was it translated accurately.

The Patriarch Lama begat the man Nuah.
His wife was the Matriarch Gaw Bo-lu-en.
Their sons were Lo Han, Lo Shen and Jah-hu. (Note 2)
So the earth began filling with tribes and with families.
Creation was shared by the clans and the peoples.

The similarities of some of the names is neat. But could also be translated wrongly with an agenda or it could be that the tale was included by Jewish or Christian religions somewhere along the way. So I would want some good proof of these names and in article dating back several thousand years ago.

Even so, mythologies don’t determine science. I know thunder is not Thor or Yahweh throwing axes or bowling. I know it’s not a great sky dragon sneezing. same as I know the world is not flat , on pillars or 6k years old.

As others pointed out flood myths are not unknown. Neither is dragons, giants or talking animals. They are quite common. It does not mean a shared history, or but rather the way a mind works.

Little kids from all aroind the world pretend their stuffed animals and dolls can talk and imagine monsters in creepy places like a closet or under a bed. Even without being specifically exposed to it. Collectively we seem to be similar in how we express creativity.

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Thanks to @dol for the excellent map of flood myths and flood prone areas of the world

This is the stuff of legends where I live:

(Twice in the same year.)

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THE THEOLOGY OF CREATION

Biblical theology, the revelation of God in Scripture, trumps all other sources of information and knowledge. And so, for centuries creation was a theological issue, not a scientific one. If we want to understand creation, if we want to understand origins, if we want to understand how the universe came into existence and everything that is in it, we have to look at theology not science. The source of theology is the Word of God in which God speaks. The Bible is not theory, the Bible is fact. The Bible is reality. The Bible is truth no matter what subject it addresses, but particularly with regard to origins since no one was here when God created. We have only His eyewitness account…And Scripture begins in Gen 1 & 2 with a very straightforward account of the origin of the universe and the earth and everything on the earth. Scripture opens with one very clear unmistakable statement. It is this: Genesis 1:1, “In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth…”…That is frankly not a statement that needs an explanation.

You face a test at the very outset of the Bible. You’re not going to get past the first verses of the Bible…You’re not going to get past the first verse in the Bible, the first chapter in the Bible, the first two chapters in the Bible without facing a test. The test is this: Do you believe the Scripture? No one gets past the opening verses of the Bible without having to face the test of whether or not that person believes the Bible to be the authoritative Word of God.

Fidelity : faithful trust in the Creator. Either you believe what the Bible says or you don’t…There is no such thing as the science of Creation. There is no scientific way to explain Creation. All science is based on observation. No one observed Creation…That is why there is nowhere in the Genesis account any place where evolution is mentioned or even hinted at. There are no natural processes in Creation. They are all supernatural. Evolution was not the means or a means by which God created. It was all supernatural and miraculous. There is only one record of Creation, Genesis 1 & 2. You can believe it or you can reject it. But that is all there is.

Heb 11:3 God created everything that exists in the universe out of nothing…that obviates evolution.

If you embrace the account in Genesis as true, then you embrace the Bible as true and the God of the Bible as the true and living God. You get not only a Creator but you get a Lawgiver and a Judge. They would love to find another alternative except the Creator God of Scripture.

ID: Intelligent Design: people acknowledge that there is behind this great reality of the universe, a mind that is intelligent from which it all springs, but they are unwilling to acknowledge that to be the God of the Bible and Genesis to be the accurate account of Creation.

“Battle for the Beginning” by John MacArthur: Evolution was invented in order to eliminate the God of Genesis and oust the lawgiver and obliterate the inviolability of His moral law. Evolution is the latest means fallen sinners have devised to suppress our innate knowledge of God and the Biblical testimony to Him and that we are accountable to Him. Even if you reject evolution there is not a mad rush to embrace Scripture because that brings to bear upon the sinner way too much responsibility and accountability.

1Tim 6:20 Guard what has been entrusted to you, avoiding worldly and empty chatter and the opposing arguments of what is falsely called science which some have professed and gone astray from the faith.

Watch out for false knowledge, false science.

2Cor 10:3-5

Simplicity : The Genesis account is by all honest consideration simple, plain, clear, perspicuous, uncomplicated unmistakable, unambiguous. It is what it is. A child can understand its simplicity.

John 1:1-3

Col 1:16

Deut 4:32

Psa 104:1-24

Psa 148

Isa 40:28

Eph 3:9

Rev 3:14, 4:11, 10:5, 14:6

Fear God and give Him glory because the hour of His judgment has come. And worship Him who made the heaven and the earth and sea and springs of waters."

Psa 33

Neh 8, 9:5,17

Priority : What is God’s purpose for which He made everything?

Jonathan Edwards: Providence subordinates all changes in the affairs of mankind and they’re all subordinated to a divine plan.

Everything from creation to consummation is part of one great divine plan being worked by God’s powerful providence. There is not one hostile molecule that operates outside of that plan. History will end exactly the way God wants it to end. The actual end of history will be the end of history which He Himself brings to pass.

This universe is not eternal. It will come to an end. It will implode in a nuclear implosion and go out of existence…But not until, and only when, God’s scheme is complete and He has no further use for this universe.

Isa 46:9

The grand design is redemption. The grand design is the gathering of a redeemed people into eternal glory for the purpose of worshiping Him forever and ever…Every part of the creation is intended to focus on the purpose of redemption.

Eph 3:8 “…He created all things in order that God might now be made known through the church to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly places. This was in accordance with the eternal purpose which He carried out in Christ Jesus our Lord.”

Why did He create all things? In order that He might put on display of manifold wisdom for all the angels of heaven to see and for which they would forever praise Him. He created to redeem, to display His glory to the holy angels. So, when you look at creation, you must understand that in creation is the very beginning of the purposes of God in redemption.

Rom 5:18,19

1Cor 15

Rev 2

Rev 22

1Cor 15:47-49

2Cor 4:6

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“There is something persuading us about the Truth, or persuading us about the things of Christ. I have a personal definition for “faith”, taking all this into consideration.”Faith” is the presence and the activity of the Holy Spirit in a believer’s life.

That is God’s Faith. By the way, that is the “faith” that is in the Bible.”

“In Hebrews 11:3-31, the writer of Hebrews now illustrates “faith” in action. Here is where we apply both kinds of “faith”.

Beginning at Genesis Chapter 1, he (the writer) will take us all the way through the Old Testament, in chronological order, through Joshua.

The first thing he does is take us to Genesis Chapter 1, the illustration from Creation.”

“Hebrews 11:3, “Through faith, (literally, the Greek text is “by” faith) we understand that the worlds were framed by the Word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made with the things which do appear.”

Broken down, “By faith we understand (perceive) that the worlds were framed (that is, put together, created) by the word of God, (the word “word” is the word “expression”. When God spoke, He created all things and put them together by His word.

The end result…) so that the things which we see didn’t come from things which appear.” It came from the spoken word of God.

“Now here is how this works…Remember the testimony I just gave you. Now let me see hands. How many of you were there at Creation?! (conversation)

But you see, I wasn’t there, so when I take my book, call it my “textbook”, the Bible, and somebody else takes their textbook, the Theory of Evolution, and we have a debate.”

He’s debating what his textbook says. I’m debating what my textbook says. Neither one of us can prove it! I’m telling him what I believe, and that’s why he’s coming up against me! He doesn’t believe what I believe. He believes what his book says. That’s human “faith”.

Pastor Bill Klein

https://masteringthebible.com/mastering-the-bible/hebrews/

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These are false dichotomies. As others have explained here and in other threads, science and faith are not in conflict with each other. Theology of creation can tell us many things about God and our relationship to him, and science can also tell us about the world God created and how it works. You don’t have to choose one or the other.

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I gather you probably don’t accept the “two-book” model that views God’s written word (scriptures) and God’s word in action (creation) as both being reliable sources of truth? Granted - they can (both - I would say) be misunderstood and misinterpreted. But properly understood, they would not conflict with each other. At least that’s what most believers here would probably think.

If you don’t fully accept that (or would perhaps maybe add some qualifiers to it), then I’m curious what role you do see for creation generally, and modern science in particular. Are they simply doomed enterprises that cannot have any value of insight for us because of sin? If not, then what legitimate role (if any) do you think science has for people generally or for believing communities in particular?

Laura, what did the Apostles go by when they did not have the information that now EC uses? They had the faith of Christ. They did not have to have the information that is in the world now. I think we need to be careful because of deceiving spirits who are against the Word of God.
Can science explain how the Lord Jesus fed the 5,000 with two fish and 5 loaves of bread? Can science explain how the Lord Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead? Did the Lord Jesus tell His disciples to go by the science or by the faith He gives?
If we did not have the written Word, what do we go by?
We have the Word of God who tells from Genesis to Revelation (Isaiah 46:10) what has taken place and by His faith, it is trustworthy. If people want to call the creationist propaganda than you are choosing a belief not from out of the faith but outside of the Word of God.
Isaiah 55:11
So shall my Word be that Goethe forth out of my mouth: it shall not return to me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please,
and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent.

“Based on that factual statement, no human being, believer or non believer can stop the fulfillment and purpose of God. Unbelief does not prevent God from filling His Word.” Pastor Bill Klein

So are we trusting in man and not the Lord? Do all beliefs and faiths come from God? They are all different. There is only one Faith that comes from God.

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You cannot separate the Truth from the Spirit.
God reveals His truth through His Spirit.

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