Folded rocks question

The cosmic microwave background radiation. Galaxies at a distance of approximately 13B light-years. A universe that has been expanding as far back as the eye can see, all the way to the CMBR.

I get that you’re not a professional astronomer, my friend @Ecerotops. You might consider learning something about the subject, rather than making assertions that contradict vast catalogs of astronomical facts that have been gathered over recent decades.

Biology is no different than physics, chemistry, astronomy, meteorology, or computer science. You wrote your little post to this forum using the fruits of several different branches of science (physics, chemistry, and computer science for sure). All of that knowledge was necessary to build the computing device you used.

Now I know some technologists (Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos) that take their leadership in technology as license to do some evil things, like hurl insults at cave rescuers or divorce a faithful wife. But do you, Earl, as a consequence of this abuse condemn the whole enterprise? Or do you continue to use the fruits of their effort for good, doing things like posting to this forum?

Biology is the same way.Just as we do not abandon technology because some technologists use it as occasion for atheism, let us not abandon biology because some biologists use it as occasion for atheism. Let’s put evolution to good use, just as we endeavor to put technology to good use. The insights of evolution are important to cancer research, to fighting tropical diseases, and to being good stewards of the ecosystems in which we live.

Like any product of human effort, science can become an idol. But we don’t stop using money just because it is the root of all sorts of evil, and we don’t stop spending romantic time with our spouses just because sex can go off the rails. And we don’t stop doing biology research just because some atheists misuse it.

So no, the struggle is not between a branch of science and God; the struggle is between human pride and God. Farmers can be tempted to idolatry–think of Jesus’ parable of the landowner whose crops were so bountiful!–but we don’t tell farmers to stop farming. Instead, we encourage them to recognize that their crops are the fruit not only of their hard work and knowledge, but also of God’s grace and providence. Likewise, we ought to encourage biologists to see their findings as the fruit not only of their hard work and knowledge, but of God’s grace and providence that have given us life, breath, and reason.

Your gracious spirit is surpassed only by your humility.



The whole point, Earl, is that the scientific consensus only changes in response to evidence. You can’t just use “scientists are always changing their minds” as a magic shibboleth to dismiss any and every scientific finding that you don’t like.

The age of the earth does not fall into that category. Nor, for that matter, does universal common ancestry.

I’m not all that familiar with “junk” DNA. But even if it can be shown that “junk” DNA is not junk after all, that does not reduce the age of the earth from 4.5 billion years, and it does not falsify universal common ancestry for all life on earth.

Through from what to what? From freedom in Christ Jesus to the bondage of nonsense about Noah having had dinosaurs on board the Ark?


Hello Chris. You’re next, Jim.

I’m not an astronomer let alone a professional astronomer. But the knowledge I share with you is from those that are. But don’t you also recognize their authority as as scientists despite their opposing stance? With science defined in the dictionary as knowledge, none of it is against God who is the source of knowledge. I hope these links will help:

Deep-Space Objects Are Young

One comment I will add is how I very well appreciate creationist scientists as they clearly share knowledge of the glory of God in all the natural things around us.

I very much appreciate the fruit of scientific effort and do not condemn it. I only condemn the misuse of it

Thank you. Of course the struggle is not between science and God, but human pride as you say. Neither is here’s any struggle between any branch of science and God as long as its data is truthful. All of the sciences showcase the glory of God. The fruit of biological science is to be well appreciated. It thus behooves us to allow none of predious scientific knowledge to cloth a wolf that may sneak among us.

Thank you for your complement. I appreciate it! Did my remark give you a good laugh?

Hello Jim,

[quote=“Jammycakes, post:82, topic:40884, full:true”]

The whole point, Earl, is that the scientific consensus only changes in response to evidence. You can’t just use “scientists are always changing their minds” as a magic shibboleth to dismiss any and every scientific finding that you don’t like.

I have to disagree with you on that. The age-of-the earth and universal common ancestry issues are issues of controversy that only encourage doubt against the Bible whose abundant evidence all around us tend to be ignored. Is our faith in the first books of the Perfect Law of Liberty or in men that make themselves appear to speak with the authority of science even though they are not? Read on to an upcoming link.

[quote=“Jammycakes, post:82 topic:40884”]

Is your faith in God’s documented word or in fallible man’s “wisdom?” Did God really say? Are the first chapters in Genesis really from God? Do you remember what happened to Eve? Here’s a link

Link Title: Origins - Millions of Years: Where did the idea come from?

I thought I spoke well of you with this statement.

What’s the problem with Noah’s having dinosaurs on the ark? Is it the 65 megannum problem? Are you aware that native Americans and people of cultures around the world have depictions of dinosaur like creatures? Where did they get the idea to draw and craft such images? Why do dragons familiar to those of different cultures tend to have basically similar reptilian characteristics? Why may we think the Chinese are so familiar with dragons? Should we think that the images were invented?

Here are several links.

Why are there depictions of dinosaurs that supposedly died 65 million years ago?

Of course there are sights that contradict. Here’s one.

I hope these are helpful.


Earl, your post was flagged as inappropriate as it is reminiscent of a disreputable technique called the Gish Gallop. That is when someone overloads the argument with so much fluff that no one cares to respond to it. If you are interested in conversation, make one or two points rather than a dozen links to old arguments. I will let the post stand intact as a monument to how not to encourage dialogue, but future posts of this nature will be deleted.

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OK. I’ll remember.

The link above references the work of Halton Arp, who appears to be an atheist astronomer who was a bit of a maverick in that he was a prominent standard bearer for the steady theory of cosmology which implied that the universe is infinitely old. I would like to hear your own personal take on how you think this supports your position on a young universe.

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Stop right there Earl. This is where Literal Six Day Young Earth Creationism turns toxic. The accusation that anyone who isn’t prepared to be spoon fed Ken Ham’s interpretation of Genesis 1 is “speaking with the voice of the serpent”. It is passive-aggressive, hostile, and Pharisaical.

You can’t just quote mine Genesis 3:1 like that and take the serpent’s words to Eve out of context to shut down discussion. The Bible tells us that we are to test everything (1 Thessalonians 5:21; 1 John 4:1). Acts 17:11 commends the Bereans for examining the Scriptures carefully to check whether Paul said was true.

Of course we need to check and make sure that we heard and understood God correctly. To fail to do so is to give a free pass to all sorts of liars and deceivers. There’s no end to the number of cults and heresies that you could introduce by attempting to shut down discussion that way.

And yes, the first chapters of Genesis really are from God. But the LSDYEC cartoon caricature of them with a thick layer of science fiction slathered on top is not.


First, humans are inventive, so they well could be made-up. Second, just because people only started systematically studying and cataloging fossils a couple hundred years ago does not mean no fossils were ever found before then. Ancient peoples could and did find dinosaur fossils and wonder what they had looked like in life.

What’s the problem with Noah’s having dinosaurs on the ark? I mean, if you lean hard enough into with God, all things are possible, no one’s going to be able to dissuade you, but you have to stick a whole lot of words that aren’t from God into the story to even kind-of justify it, and it winds up flying in the face of just about everything we know about animals. And boats. And storms. And the earth. And people. And history.

But hey, keep believing what you want, I guess.

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I wrote an article just for people like you.

Are you familiar at all with Adrienne Mayor? She basically started the whole branch of investigation called geomythology.