Finding it hard to believe

(Phil) #61

Guess we are going to have to find new names for months and days of the week.
Let’s see. today is Friday:
The name Friday comes from the Old English Frīġedæġ, meaning the “day of Frige”, a result of an old convention associating the Old English goddess Frigg with the Roman goddess Venus, with whom the day is associated in many different cultures.

Let’s start calling it “Outofhere Day.”


Why do you feel the need to respond to an extreme website?

(Phil) #63

I have to admit, the longer you are around, the more you see that there are some people who are really out there, and responding to them just pushes them further and never accomplishes much. Sort of like the “wrestle with a pig” quote.

(Jay Johnson) #64

Pretty certain you meant the website author, not @Reggie_O_Donoghue. But just to be clear … Not directed at you, Reggie!

(Edward Miller) #65

I would say that before God made contact with Abraham and Sarah that Abram came from the City of UR in Mesopotamia. He probably was originally influenced by pantheism before the true God, Adonai Elohim, made himself known to Abram and Sarai, two people who accepted the true God and became known as Abraham and Sarah. After that, he would father of the Hebrew people.

(RiderOnTheClouds) #66

Because they are correct that God does call for destroying these places. Maybe I didn’t need to link the website to be fair.

(Phil) #68

Yes, @Reggie_O_Donoghue! I was referring to the website! Sorry for my ambiguous wording! Ten lashes with a wet pool noodle for me.

(RiderOnTheClouds) #69

But it raises the question as to ‘why’ God would call for this, if this wasn’t his ideal

(Jay Johnson) #70

Joshua 24: “2 Joshua said to all the people, “This is what the Lord, the God of Israel, says: ‘Long ago your ancestors, including Terah the father of Abraham and Nahor, lived beyond the Euphrates River and worshiped other gods. 3 But I took your father Abraham from the land beyond the Euphrates and led him throughout Canaan and gave him many descendants.”

(John Dalton) #71

The key word there is really “was”, isn’t it?


ISIS is a radical violence-promoting Islamist group. Your website is a nutty extremist violence-promoting Christian site. So first we must get our extremist sects sorted out. (They would probably enjoy attacking each other!) If you take any of this seriously please stay out of museums, airports, etc.

(RiderOnTheClouds) #73

I won’t ever endorse this stuff, I’m only saying that they do seem to be correct that the Bible does call for destroying pagan artefacts.

(Mervin Bitikofer) #74

No. They are not correct to think that the Bible generally calls for that.

Any more than they would be correct to think that the bible commands us all to drink wine just because Paul told Timothy to do so.

(George Brooks) #75


You seem so shocked. It also says to execute the person who works on the Sabbath.


Yep, I’m not sure but doesn’t the Bible say Abraham was some kind of idol worshipper before God came along? Joshua 24:2

(Edward Miller) #77

Yes. You are correct. But Abraham was perhaps not of the follower of the true God at first; however, the true God called until him and revealed himself to him. He told him to leave Ur, and he would show him a land in which Abram could serve Him. Therefore, he was the father of the Hebrews.

(Edward Miller) #78

I believe we are agreeing here. Abram had not become a Jew at the time. He followed paganism; however, God chose Abraham or Abram because he was the most righteous of men. He was the father of the Hebrews and the Jewish Religion. Moses would come later in history and receive the ten commandments after the Exodus from Egypt of the Hebrew people.

(Jay Johnson) #79

10 posts were split to a new topic: December 25, Paganism, Christmas … again

(Edward Miller) #81

Good answer. God bless.

(Jay Johnson) #82

A two-fer reply. I’m becoming more efficient. The Bible doesn’t call for destroying pagan artefacts. The Israelites were not ordered to remove ancient sites of worship, a la ISIS. We are talking about shrines and altars that were contemporary at the time. We’re talking about knocking over piles of stone and burning wooden poles, not blowing up 2000-yr-old temples. God called for this action to remove the temptation toward syncretism, combining the worship of Baal (and other gods) with worship of YHWH. As a matter of fact, Israel did not follow through, and they did end up chasing after other gods. The book of Hosea is a good introduction to the theme of Israel as “God’s unfaithful wife.”

Regarding your question on the “ideal,” you still seem confused on the difference between a statement that applies to a particular historical situation and a statement that is meant to be universal. As well, God’s communication with mankind always accommodates our historical situation and cultural development. (God did not reveal himself to ancient peoples in modern language and modes of thought.) The trick is to separate what is time-bound from what is timeless.

I suggest you try reading the Scriptures with your heart instead of your head for a while. Let the Word of God speak to your spirit and bring healing and shalom, rather than confusion and despair. Seek God, not intellectual puzzles. Just my 2c