Eden and the Flood


(Mazrocon) #1

According to the global flood of Noah, massive layers of sedimentary rock were deposited very rapidly, creating the fossil record, as well as drastically changing the earth as we know it today.

I’m going to list some problems with this idea using the descriptions of Eden given in Genesis 2

First: The Two Rivers

Genesis 2:14 “And the name of the third river is Hiddekel…”

But in Daniel 10:4 we read “And in the fourth and twentieth day of the first month, as I was by the side of the great river, which is Hiddekel.”

The same two rivers are mentioned, but could that river still exist afte a global flood?

Genesis 2:14 “… And the fourth river is Euphrates.”

But in Genesis 15:18 we read “In the same day The Lord made a covenant with Abram saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt, unto the great river, the river of Euphrates.”

Here again, another river existing from Eden clear on out past the great deluge of Noah. Are they simply coincidentally same-named rivers, or talking about the same river?

Second Part: The Three Land Masses

Genesis 2:11 “The name of the first is Pison: That is it which compasseth the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold.”

Compare with Genesis 25:18 “And they dwelt in Havilah unto Shur that is before Egypt, as thou goes toward Assyria…”

Why is Moses talking about Havilah (in Eden) as if it still exists? Should not Havilah, at least, be a drastically different land mass in pre-flood days?

Genesis 2:13 “And the name of the second river is Gihon: the same is it which compasseth the whole land of Ethopia (KUWSH)”

And Genesis 10:6, in the Table of Nations “And the sons of Ham: Cush (KUWSH), and Mizraim, and Phut, and Canaan.”

According to the Hebrew Dictionary (Lexicon-Concordance) the word H3568 means "The land occupied by the descendants located in the southern parts of the Nile (Ethiopia).

Why is Moses describing in Eden a place that compasses “the whole land of Ethiopia” which is a place whose name is derived from Cush, a person yet to be born at least 1,600 years later?

Genesis 2:14 “… Which goeth toward the east of Assyria (ASHSHUR)”

And Genesis 10:11, from the Table of Nations “Out of that land went forth Ashur (ASHSHUR)”

According to the Hebrew Dictionary (Lexicon-Concordance) the word H0804 means “The second son of Shem, eponymous ancestor of Assyria.”

Here again we have the same situation. A land spoke of by Moses, existing in Eden, whose name derives from one of Noah’s sons thousands of years later.

So far I’ve presented two rivers (Hiddekel and Euphrates) as well as three land masses (Havilah, Ethiopia, and Assyria) that either still exist after the flood, or have names that are derived from ancestors that lived thousands of years later. It seems very difficult to simply pass these off as coincidences.

Furthermore, why does Moses describe Eden at all (in such detail… As if you could actually go visit these places) if, according to the flood, they would have been extremely different places.

If Moses wanted to describes these places as “old world” (aka pre-Flood) surely he would have given some indication, within the Edenic descriptions, that they were places that no longer exist today. Maybe something along the lines as: “which compasseth the region that is now called Ethiopia”…?

-Tim


(Jim Lock) #2

@TimothyHicks Are you doing your own research or pulling from somebody? Not trying to criticize, just curious. Either way I think you have some astute observations.

One could possibly argue that they are different rivers following different courses and that Noah and his descendants simply reused names that they were already familiar with. Plausible, but only if there weren’t additional passages implying a human population besides Noah. Taken alongside passages that have Nimrod founding great cities, the text appears to imply additional population outside of Noah’s family.

Respectfully,
Jim


(Mazrocon) #3

Thanks Jim.

I heard about the two rivers from a different article - so that part is borrowed. But as I read the Eden descriptions more intently I realized other oddities as well… Ethiopia, Assyria, and Havilah.

The possibility of “coincidentally” named rivers is true (though I think unlikely). However I think Ethiopia and Assyria are more of a stretch. Cush (ancestor of Ethiopia) are paired right along with other major players. Mizraim (which is early Egypt) and Canaan (the promised land). Canaan specifically is mentioned in the prophecy spoken by Noah, after the “drunk-episode”…

Not sure if anyone else noticed but the word “Eden” itself is an oddity. The text in Genesis 2 mentions a place called “Eden” yet never explains its origins… Who named it, and when? It says God planted a garden… But that garden is IN Eden.


(system) #4

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