Christs death or not really?

Friend,

How can you know what’s true?

They’re not speculations. They are examples of what people have decided about the OT events, potentially in light of Jesus’ character. I’m not speculating at all.

They are those people speculations then. Since you arent the writter of the Book neither you were there and we of course we dont have any historical records of God actually commanding these things,they are just speculations

Fair–to a point. But many people make decisions about the OT based on evidence or a lack thereof.

I feel it’s only right that I give you an answer to your question. I use a variety of methods, usually in conjunction with each other, to determine what I believe is true. Experience. Scientific methodology. Reason. Evidence. Testimony. Story. Intuition.

Now, how can you know what’s true?

-Joshua W.

2 Likes

No one knows
Only speculations

Friend,

So, you know that no one knows what is true?

3 Likes

I am not sure I understand you point or what to do with if either of these theories are “what really happened”.

I could be wrong, maybe you can help me out by answering that above?

My personal beliefs aren’t grounded in the belief of a risen Christ. I can say for sure I don’t know “what really happened”. We are told we get glorified bodies, but what does that mean? Are our bodies “fixed”? Is it a different body? What age will those bodies be? What about scars from this life, will those bodies have them? Jesus seemed to keep His scars. What of those born without legs, will their bodies have legs?

I do believe Jesus did rise from the dead. He had a physical body that ate to show us how physical it was. But He also walked through walls/door (which we know the physical body cannot). But we also remember His “actual” pre-death physical body also walked on water. So was His earthly body physical? Or was that some sort of physiological manifestation? Was His entire life a cognitive dissonance that since a messiah never came, they made one up? We can what if all kinds of things that we have no clue as to “what really happened”.

Though there are accounts from Roman’s (those with no cognitive dissonance or motivation for making up His life) speaking about the physical life of a man named Jesus and them curious as to how He performed miracles or got that many people to believe he did. So I guess we can’t argue that He actually did live/exist. But I guess we still could argue all the supernatural claims from Him and/or others were all made up.

Again, what is the point? Would this change your beliefs if you were a Christian? What are your beliefs/religion?

This Man still taught me truths. He still revealed to me the meanings behind the Scriptures, how God created us all, God loves, and values us all, how we need God to help us do anything of value and that God deserves all glory for anything of value that is done.

Isn’t that what life after death is? A legacy? People remembering you, the things you taught, and doing those things. Aren’t someone living now doing those things and extension of you? An ancestor that benefited from you, part of the ‘offspring’ of your tribe?

But eventually everyone is forgotten, no matter how great they were, and the ideas they had or did had to come from something/somewhere/someone else. So in honoring the one you honor, you are actually honoring the one who they lived to honor. Honoring a Son for the things they did, is also honoring the Father for the things they taught, because the Son is an extension of the Father, is only doing as the Father taught, is essentially trying to transformed into the Father. God and His character has always been and will never be forgotten, His truths are eternal.

This is exactly how Jesus “made a spectacle of darkness”. Satan thought by killing Jesus, Jesus would have failed to fix or redeem the world which was His intent in coming here. But Jesus did the opposite. In dying for us, showed that He would do everything in His life, even to the point of death, even death on a cross to show His devotion to God and His love for us, thus eternalizing those characteristics of God, revealing them to us, so we can internalize them, and have the power of His love and truth in us, actually redeeming us as He came to earth to do. Now we have no more guilt of our past, we no longer have despair in this life or eternity, we have hope and truth that we are loved, valued, and that God wants to help us, and that we need God to help us, and to acknowledge who God is and that all glory belongs to Him! That God loves us and forgives our sins and wanted to go to great lengths to show us that and designed all the rituals of the OT and our basic human society/structure of how a father loves a son so that Jesus could die for us and our belief in that would forgive us and transform us to no longer have guilt and to no longer rob the glory that belongs to God and no longer make our own decisions as if we were God, so that we can live life eternally, and live it to the fullest!

As to “can science explain what happened” Probably not. But neither can science explain love. We observe it, it is all around us, but science can’t explain it. Science can’t explain or measure mercy, but it is there, observable and repeatable.

So I don’t think you are arguing if Jesus actually lived on this earth. He clearly completed His purpose on this earth and redeemed us with His truth and His life. So what about “what really happened after the crucifixion”? I will tell you what happened. His truth lived on! The God that I believe created us, Jesus’ Father, tells us Jesus rose from the dead, so that is how I know it happened. Jesus Himself said He would rise from the dead, that is how I know it happened. Their are prophesies that said He would rise from the dead, that is how I know it happened. He is living in me, that is how I know what happened!

and thus is completely contrary to the recorded historical accounts, particularly that of Luke and John but also the others, that go out of their way to emphasize that they were interacting with a flesh and blood resurrected body of the real person of Jesus.

And thus these earliest biblical accounts like Luke that by his own account collected multiple eyewitness claims all gathered numerous, independent eyewitness claims that were all intentional lies… all these disciples that had these personal, “internal and subjective” imaginative experiences of Jesus went around intentionally foisting the lie that what they had really experienced was real, physical, flesh and blood person.

1 Like

This topic was automatically closed 6 days after the last reply. New replies are no longer allowed.

“Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone.” -Colossians 4:6

This is a place for gracious dialogue about science and faith. Please read our FAQ/Guidelines before posting.