Can something exist out of time and space?

I have figured that if God is an all powerful, all knowing being, than he must not be affected by space and time the same way we are if at all, considering he supposedly invented space and time. My other question in regards to the first is how can we know this or know at all as to wether something can exist out of space and time, is there a way to demonstrate it?

God exists outside of time and space. No way to prove or disprove it.

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I have already cited firsthand truthfully reported facts which are objective evidence of his sovereignty over time and space and timing and placing in his providential interventions into the lives of his children. That pretty well attests to God’s existence and that he is independent of our spacetime.

If God then panentheism.

God would still exist even if the cosmos did not. The universe did not become part of God when he created it any more than a cabinet maker becomes his craftsmanship or part of it. That does not deny God’s omnipresence or immanence.

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Yes that is the Christian traditional way of thinking, and I certainly agree with it.

What is altered by relativity and the discarding the notion of absolute time is it no longer leads to the conclusion that God is timeless. The idea that God is timeless results in a lot of confusion and conflict with the belief in a personal God, for how can God think anything or feel anything if there is no time in which that happens. But with the demise of the notion of absolute time we now know that just because God created the time we experience and measure, does not mean that God does not have any time of His own. I think we can be sure that God is not a slave to any sort of time but simply uses whatever time as He chooses. Thus it still remains nonsensical to ask what God was doing during an infinity of time before creation.

We cannot do that with the methods of science, to be sure. Those all depend on the mathematical space-time structure. However, that hasn’t prevented scientists from speculating about the existence of things outside the measurable space-time structure with ideas like the multiverse. With things like that, scientists and theologians are on equal footing.

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We still have the objective evidence of God’s providential M.O. Of course, it has been denied as constituting evidence by some and will be, but that does not erase the objective facts.

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No, not mine.

Our real three-dimensional space started with the big bang, your ‘absolute space’ appears to be an exercise. The same can be said of time.

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It may depend on your definition of existence? Or life? Or even reality?

Have you ever watched DS9? The inhabitants of the artificial wormhole live out of linear time. I am not claiming any sort of reality here but it does illustrate some of the anomalies and paradoxes of living in or out of linear time.

And then there is Q. A brilliant invention. All the characteristics of God and the amoralities that come with it.

Richard

Even if I conceded your “real three-dimensional space” that “started with the big bang”–which I don’t–yours assumes there has only been one singularity that “banged”. In my absolute space and absolute time, there has been and is more than enough room and time for more than one big bang. And you have no evidence that there hasn’t been and isn’t.

So, … like I told Kevin: “Can something exist out of time and space? No, not mine.”

You’re so special. :grin:

Not really. If you want to presume other universes, they are not necessarily related in any way in their space and time to our space and time. But God can still be omnitemporal in your scheme?

Not really by a stretch of imagination.

  • Assume two or more singularities. Nah, let’s keep it simple, and stick to two. They’re either in the same place at the same time, or they aren’t. If they are, they’re the same singularity, and it’s silly to talk about two singularities. The only way I can imagine two singularities that are not in the same place at the same time is if there is a distance of space between them, or a distance of time between them, or both.
  • The notion that two singularities, neither more nor less, could exist and not be necessarily related in any way just means–and feel free to correct me if I’m wrong, but fer goodness sake, do it with more than a “Nope”–their space-times are so far apart that they don’t connect in any meaningful way that influences one, the other, or both of them. Big deal! So, their space-times or Higgs fields, if both have them, aren’t connected. What’s between them, nothing? Gee, that’s my kind of Space and my kind of Time.

God’s omnitemporality is your “thing”, not mine.

That presumes your absolute unitized space, which I disbelieve… it’s your thing. If there is no space ‘before’ the big bangs, it’s hard for them to be in the same space.

Yep. Looks we’ve got us one of those durn irreconcilable differences.

Once more, …

  • Big Bangs are:
    • Either one bang from two perspectives, relativistically speaking,
    • Or two bangs at the same Time in different places;
    • Or two bangs in the same place at different Times;
    • Or two bangs in different places at different Times.

If this were a private message, I would remove myself.
 

Those all presume your unitized absolute space and time. Once more, … I don’t.

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Sure things exist out of time and space. What about the integers, the rational numbers, real numbers? Where and when are they?

God is not a thing or even a Being among other beings and things. God is the Source of Reality, and therefore the Source of space and time.

We can logically infer that the universe had Beginning since we can observe that the universe, like all things, is finite. Since it is finite, it has a beginning and an end. God is not finite and therefore has no beginning or end.

Humans have observed that the universe is expanding at a certain rate of speed. Extrapolating that information, we can trance it back to a Beginning some 15 billion years ago, which also seems to agree with the evidence for the Big Bang.

An interesting assertion. I guess it might depend on your definition of being? But, just because we have difficulty defining God in terms of physicality (including time and space) if He still exists He must have some sort of form, even if it is not with our perception and understanding.

Richard

“Let your conversation be always full of grace, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how to answer everyone.” -Colossians 4:6

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