Broaching "the subject" in your homeschool community

I could not agree more that a spiritually-based approach is critical, and at the same time the science has to be brought in somehow. There is no magic formula, but occasionally progress gets made with one believer here, another there.

I have to admit that this issue has been the cause of considerable spiritual distress and discouragement to me, and I may have given expression to those emotions too forcefully.

However, this site and the new forum is a great blessing, and I am indebted to everyone at Biologos who keeps it going.

I used to naively think that I would make an impression on my Young Earth Creationist, Ham-ite friends by asking them, “In the history of Christianity, how well has science-denial worked out for us? How often has telling the scientists that they are completely wrong worked out for us?”

Unfortunately, I soon discovered that Ken Ham had already taught them wrong definitions of “scientist”, usually dating from before modern science. So I was told, “Scientists used to think that blood was expendable so they would bleed people to death. But the Bible says that the life of the flesh is in the blood!”

Of course, that’s not true. Science never determined by the scientific method that blood is purely expendable and bleeding it away would heal people (with perhaps one kind of blood disorder involving excess-iron in the blood.) So I try to explain to people that blood-letting was ancient folk medicine and was reinforced by ancient Greek philosophy involving the Four Elements and the good and bad humours. George Washington was bled to death by his doctors (as anti-science Christians often tell me) but I tell them that that was because the American Colonies didn’t have any medical schools and so blood-letting persisted in the New World even after European Science had dismissed it as dangerous.

I find that I have to do that same point-by-point rebuttal to so many of Ken Ham’s silly “Scientists are so often so very wrong!” examples. They’ve spread like a cancer within many churches.

I think creationism remains pervasive in the conservative evangelical church in America for reasons that have far more to do with sociology than with the natural sciences, theology or even biblical hermeneutics. Creationism is a boundary marker for conservative evangelicals. As such it is analogous in that community to a whole range of other diverse boundary markers they have: biblical inerrancy, soteriological exclusivism, patriarchy, and of course conservative opinions on sexual ethics, homosexuality, gender, abortion, race, political party affiliation, climate change, and so on.

These boundary markers originate for various case-by-case reasons, some good and some bad; but once they reach a certain threshold of acceptance, cultural conformity takes over and becomes the dominant factor in their maintenance over generations. Dissecting and arguing with the underlying reasons that inspired these markers to rise in the first place - the hermeneutical, exegetical, theological, scientific, historical, philosophical, legal and/or moral reasoning that originally lent them credence - is almost beside-the-point. And violating any one of them by holding, let alone being vocal about, different opinions can lead to outcomes ranging from occasional awkward conversations to outright severing of relationship. (And lest you think I’m picking on conservative evangelicalism too much, I think most or all cultural groups behave this way.)

That said, the boundary-stones are not immovable and do rise and fall over time - even rapidly. We’re seeing that happen now with homosexuality. In broader American culture, increasing acceptance of homosexuality is now affecting, and will continue to inevitably affect, the perception of homosexuality within conservative evanglicalism as well. In a rapidly short period of only a couple of decades, the broader culture has moved on homosexuality from “don’t-ask-don’t-tell” acknowledgement and co-existence, to acceptance and tolerance, and now closing in on welcome, encouragement and affirmation. And the same thing will happen within the conservative church in the next couple of decades, until traditional negative views of homosexuality are seen as simple bigotry - just as has already happened in the conservative church following the broader culture with respect to race (miscegenation, etc). And so the “homosexuality boundary marker” will fall. Biblical arguments, scientific arguments, moral arguments and philosophical arguments about whether it should or not will matter little, once the new paradigm has entrenched itself and cultural momentum takes over.

The only thing that will make evolution acceptable within conservative evangelicalism, then, is for the same sort of thing to happen with creationism (though perhaps less dramatically, as unlike sexual orientation, evolution poses no “threat” in everday ordinary life). Factors ranging from “beachhead” pro-evolutionary pastors, churches, and para-church organizations (eg Biologos), to increasing millenial-generation acceptance of mainstream science, will chip-away at creationism until - once evolution-acceptance reaches that threshold point - social momentum will carry it the rest of the way.

Incidentally, there will of course be factionalization in all of this. As a new paradigm becomes established that is unacceptable to more-traditionalist holdouts, they will separate. Evangelicalism will fracture - it is already starting with progressive evangelicalism (aka “post” evangelicalism) having less in-common theologically with its conservative roots than it does with mainline Protestantism. It remains to be seen whether evolution/creationism is one of those wedge issues (to borrow the expression from Philip Johnson in not-at-all the way he intended it) that lead to division.

Anyway, that’s how I see it, and it’s one reason I find myself having little interest anymore in arguing the good reasons for accepting evolution with anyone.

Of course, one way to frame the problem is as a question of whether Scripture has any relevance to determination of morals or historical facts. I have a church just a block from my house that treats the Bible as a kind of quaint artifact of continuous human striving towards human “flourishing,” which is inevitably defined according to the dominant opinions of society at large. For them the resurrection of Jesus is not an event in history but a symbol of the rebirth that people experience in a thousand ways if they but open their eyes to see. Written revelation is essentially on a par with Aesop’s Fables.

If that were the way I looked at the subject, I would not have a problem. I would not bother with any of it.

They may indeed see scripture and the resurrection that way - certainly some churches and denominations do. But I wonder - because that kind of characterization is how some conservatives often describe churches less conservative than themselves. Is your characterization of them fair and accurate or is it colored by those in your own circle? No offense. Best to you!

It’s a fair question, but no, I’m not attacking a straw man in this case. I listened online to the Easter sermon given by the pastor of the church I was talking about. I was genuinely surprised by the teaching. No one in the fellowship I attend has ever even mentioned that church. I do have two close friends who attended the church in question for a couple of months several years ago, and they were disappointed by the accepting attitude the church showed toward cohabitation, for example, and the low view of Scripture generally expressed.

On the church’s website “links” section, they include the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force and the Gay, Lesbian, and Straight Education Network.

The subject of same sex attraction is a deep and difficult one, and I do not treat it dismissively. However, I do not believe that the popular LGBTQ agenda leaves any room for a recognizable biblical sexual ethic.

And this does get to the heart of some tough issues. Many believers think that evolutionary creation amounts to putting biblical lipstick on unsaved, unredeemed worldly natural philosophy. I don’t believe that’s true, but it’s not hard to spin it that way. When Christians appear to get their ethics and values from the world, then dress those values up with a biblical frill here and there, it feeds that misperception about evolution and unreflective literalism.

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This issue has recently come to the forefront in our homeschool co-op. We are a fairly diverse group, especially considering our location in a rural county in the mountains of NC. We even had a science class taught by a local park ranger that included evolution. Those parents that did not agree with that just didn’t have their children take that class. Some of my best friends in the group are YEC. They are aware of my views on the subject and I am of theirs and this is just one of those topics we’ve agreed to disagree on and not really discuss with one another. This year, however, the church where we meet for co-op classes instituted a policy that stated that not only the did the group as a whole have to sign a user agreement with the church, but each teacher who taught a class there through the group had to sign off on the same guidelines. One of the points on the agreement stated “WIll not teach any topic that goes against biblical principles”. Long story short, this has now created a “Christians vs non-Christians” sense of division within the group (that really did not exist before) and has caused our science class to be moved to another location (our local library). Unfortunately, this move means that some kids won’t be able to take the science class because of transportation issues. We are figuring out ways to make sure that every child that wants to take the class can and working out ride sharing and some of us that do find ourselves occupying a middle ground on this issue are trying to keep conversations around this going and lines of communication open. It’s sad though that this has created an issue/division where there honestly wasn’t one before. I am lucky that the church our family attends is very open to views other than YEC so we don’t have to “hide” our views there at all. I’m also lucky in that my soon to be 14 year old is pretty mature for his age and is able to comfortably operate in groups of other homeschoolers who fall all along the spectrum of beliefs in this area. He doesn’t hide what he believes but also knows that sometimes it’s best not to “stir the pot”. We do have great discussions at home around these issues!

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[quote=“wsquared77, post:19, topic:4826”]
the agreement stated “WIll not teach any topic that goes against biblical principles”
[/quote

Disagreeing with evolution is one thing, but that statement is difficult to take, as it equates any way of interpreting the Bible other than theirs as being against Biblical principles if they are using it as an occult way of saying to adhere to YEC teachings. Sometimes you just gotta love them anyway, but it would be interesting to explore and have them define what they really mean by that.
You could easily provide information that would support evolution as not being against biblical teaching, but …

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Having not grown up in a strong evangelical environment (we were nominally Methodist; my dad rarely went to church and then my sister started refusing to go and then I declared atheism when I was 15), I am surprised to read all these replies about how huge an issue this is within homeschool groups and co-ops, and am wondering now if I need to determine the prevailing view in the homeschool co-op I just joined, in which I signed my son up for a “Hands-On Science” class. I was never indoctrinated into the YEC view and found Biologos soon after I accepted Jesus Christ (within a pretty broad-minded urban non-denominational church), and everything I read resonated with me (though questions / mysteries still abound, of course). I did mention to the coordinator of the co-op when I joined that we believed in EC. She just kind of smiled and nodded and changed the subject. I thought nothing of it at the time, and wondered if it was silly for me to even bring it up because perhaps her lack of response indicated it was not an issue, but now I’m a bit concerned… I don’t mean to bag on YEC’ers. I can sympathize with the desire for the Bible to be infallible in the certain Enlightenment-formed way we sometimes want it to, and the fear that if we take as allegorical or non-literal one part, the whole caboodle crumbles. I’ve been there, and still stumble / wonder occasionally, in other ways. But because I have never been entrenched in a YEC community I always kind of assumed people who were adamantly YEC were few and far between… seems it is not so?

I wonder myself. In my community, there are a few that bring it (YEC) up, but a lot that “go along” with it, but I suspect do not really think it is true, but will say there is a young earth and literal global flood etc. just because it is expected to be a member of the community. A little different, but sort of like the pro-life position to be a Republican, pro-choice to be a Democrat, though we REALLY do not want to go there!

I’m not sure how you would ever tease it out to see how many really have those core beliefs, though I think there was a study done years back (with Biologos as a sponsor as I recall but could be wrong) that came up with about 11% of American evangelicals who had really firm feelings for the YEC position. I’m too lazy to look that up but sure someone can correct me if wrong.

I would think that the best thing is to not worry too much about it, as I suspect most are like your friend who would just rather not talk about it, probably because of the cognitive dissonance it brings up. Quite honestly, my wife is sort of in that boat where she accepts an old earth but it really is not something she wants to discuss, as it would put a barrier between her and her more literal friends.

That is great. I’m trying to figure out how you help kids balance between being honest about their own thinking, being accepting and non-threatening with other people, and knowing when to just keep their mouths shut. I’m sure they learn by example to a certain extent.

Maybe in the generic Christian population. In the Christian homeschool population, YEC is definitely the norm most places because that is what most of the resources and conferences promote. It’s kind of like courtship and essential oils. Way more homeschoolers are into those movements than you would find in a typical church population.

YEC is the norm in most Evangelical home school settings. As an alternative I developed this STEM-Technology Curriculum which can be used successfully by “old earth” creationists - http://asa-cwis.blogspot.com/2016/08/technology-and-stem-education-curriculum.html

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So… yikes. It turns out most of the people in the group believe in YEC, or at least a good number. During classes and playdates recently, I got into a number of conversations with the other moms about what curriculum they used, and every one I spoke with used either My Father’s World or Apologia. I am really surprised. Mine is a more “open” group - there is a Muslim family, and I met another woman who said she was “not really religious” (she is fine with evolution). There is a short statement of Christian faith to be signed, but the agreement is merely that you respect the statement, not agree with it (hence the Muslim and agnostic / atheist families, I guess). I am disappointed, because I had hoped to befriend a fellow homeschooler (in person) who was perhaps familiar with Biologos and / or also seeking to understand God’s creation in light of evolution. Perhaps there will be someone I just haven’t met or spoken with in depth yet. I feel like at this point asking about curriculum is “safer” and much less confrontational than something explicit like “so, how do you feel about evolution?”

Also - James, you are probably right about not bringing it up… I wouldn’t, but for the fact that I want to have someone in person with whom I can have these discussions! But, because there are families of other faiths (or no faith) within my group, I’m assuming it’s not substantially “Christian” beyond the label and having prayer to open co-op classes. But, since it is a co-op wherein individuals teach classes, and develop / find their own material to teach the classes, I wonder how the subject would be completely avoided in (at least, for older children) biological science classes. I wonder if it’s ever come up before? Since I’m new, I don’t want to rock the boat, but I am curious about how it all pans out if there are differing views within the group.

Thank you, Alice!

It can be a bit of a minefield, and forums like this provide a sounding board that perhaps we do not have outside of it. We tend to get focused on the subject of evolution, and have to remind ourselves that it is peripheral to faith. So long as your group accepts and loves you and your children, it is OK to stick with them and just love them back.

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I agree! And I have felt very warmly accepted. I am grateful to be in the group, but indeed, also grateful for this forum :slight_smile:

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I appreciate your approach. Thank you for exhibiting such a gracious, generous spirit. I hope I can do that someday.

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You are welcome, Ashley.

If you click on the link you will see that the students are exploring science and the Bible and finding that the data of Scripture (minus various interpretations) aligns well with the findings of the sciences.

Students select a card from the Bible Technology Card Box. These cards provide background information and context for students to research up to 3 questions per card related to science, technology, engineering and math in the Bible, specifically among Abraham’s ancestors in the Archaic Period. Students complete 12 cards per semester. The cards are color coded as follows:

Anthropology - gold
Archaeology - blue
Architecture - pink
Astronomy - green
Climate Studies - purple
Earth Science - black
Genetics - red
Linguistics - brown
Materials - bright yellow
Medicine - orange
Navigation - white
Zoology - salmon

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